I had a temperature problem with a Barista Express but it was only noticeable if I made and tasted 3 drinks on the trot. More of a strength of the brew than a taste variation. The 2nd and 3rd were the fine. Cured by preheating. My way but another suggestion is to run a little bit of steam before pulling the actual shot. Flavours mentioned for beans could reproduced probably without the preheat.

Totally different a Piccino. Temp control not good. A rather different taste of coffee comes out but still a decent drink. ;) I aught to check it over carefully and sell it. It will steam milk but rather slowly and temp stability on steam probably isn’t good.

Gaggia is very popular but many buyers seem to modify them rather quickly including adding PID.

All Sage machines give at least reasonable temp stability. The penalty is the need to keep an eye on descaling.

My way of preheating was pretty simple. A 2nd portafilter with an empty dual wall filter basket in it. Just run a part shot through that. Flow rates will be in the range the PID is intended to work at. I bought a used one to convert to bottomless. These can be bought now.

Grinders - a rabbit hole. What ever some one buys other options for specific reasons are likely to be mentioned. Never seen any suggestions about changing from an EK47s.

Thanks all….. 😱🤠

So from the above comments maybe I should just burn it all and get the Micra 👍😂

Seriously I like the more mechanical options as they are small and portable - the kitchen is not yet a space I could easily place a full machine. I suspect I would need a coffee island/trolley.

My attempts with the nanofoamer are improving slowly - for what it does it works well.

Too many decisions - luckily I have a couple of moka bits arriving from Italy on Friday - might keep me busy for a bit!

    MattH Seriously I like the more mechanical options as they are small and portable - the kitchen is not yet a space I could easily place a full machine.

    Maybe that’s a reason to reconsider the 9Barista! 😉

    Seriously, that’s exactly why I was interested in it – our counter space is limited, and we didn’t have the room for an espresso machine, even a small one, like the Breville Bambino.

        wilburpan Hello :) - when you bought the 9barista did you get the IMS basket or just stick with the standard supplied one ?

        I had seen online somewhere that you could also get a third party cover for the portafilter rather than the rubber insert - have you tried that at all ?

        Cheers

        Matt

            tompoland I totally agree with your assessment, I have stuck with Profile 1 on the V, which is the closest (I believe @DavecUK had something to do with this 😀) I can get with profiling to spring lever pressure profile and the sweetness of the shots, wow.

            Current setup: ACS Vesuvius, Nuova Simonelli Mythos One. Past experience, Nuova Simonelli Apia 1 gr., San Remo Capri 1 gr., Bezzera BZ 35e, Fracino Heavenly. Anfim Super Lusso.

            Contact me at: john_yossarian11@yahoo.com

              :) I used to have my machine in the living room on a side table. The kitchen had rather limited worktop space. There is space for one now as more counter space which my wife is very good at filling up.

              Various cups etc. No not now just the mug also slimmer scales with a higher capacity. Hand grinder - no thanks for espresso, Beans go into a vented can for several days now to condition. Then a plunger type for use..

              The Bambino from various reviews and write ups appears to be Barista Express less grinder and pressure gauge. plus the milk stuff, Only way to be sure though is to look inside.

              MattH Hello :) - when you bought the 9barista did you get the IMS basket or just stick with the standard supplied one ?

              I had seen online somewhere that you could also get a third party cover for the portafilter rather than the rubber insert - have you tried that at all ?

              I have and use the IMS basket and the insert that came with the 9Barista. Works great!

              I actually never tried the stock basket. But using the IMS basket makes me feel better, so there’s value in that.

                  wilburpan But using the IMS basket makes me feel better, so there’s value in that.

                  ;) You may have made a good point there. I tried them too but don’t use them any more.

                    4 days later

                    tompoland

                    On the john buckman quote, did he mean springs werr the death of the manual direct lever or of levers in general? Because if it were the latter, then i dont understand it because the spring lever made true espresso possible for the first time and without the spring, a direct lever woiod not have been commercially practical to use in a cafe.

                        chlorox essentially he was saying that putting springs into lever machines removed, in large part, the ability to vary the pressure.

                            tompoland essentially he was saying that putting springs into lever machines removed, in large part, the ability to vary the pressure.

                            It did, unless you purposefully retard the lever. It also makes the assumption that the ability to profile pressure is superior. Over the years, although useful, most profiling ends up looking like a lever profile. The one thing levers do, is fill in a unique way. The more advanced ones are then effectively a PID controlled boiler forming part of the group.

                            Temperature stability on the generation of new dual boiler levers is rather excellent and there is the ability to produce a declining, falling or rising temperature shot. These are not the levers of the past, where temperature is highly unstable. Starting off super hot, then cooling and for subsequent shots different again from even the one you did previously.

                            Sure a spring may have impacted the lever of yesteryear in a few ways…not only pressure, but also the ability to control the flow rate of water entering the group! This ability to let water enter slowly could possibly mitigate the effect of very hot water entering the group. Unlike home levers, the commercial manual levers had big boilers and didn’t need to run so hot. Today the most modern levers, rightly, remove the link between steaming and brewing

                            Contact me

                              8 days later

                              So time for a quick update… still enjoying the research into possible espresso machines - the heart is set on a Linea Micra for its small size, style and build.

                              But thats a big purchase so not one I will jump into.

                              I am also still considering the Flair or 9barista (looking forward to hearing what @tompoland thinks of it ) as a toe in the ocean - but tbh I am also really enjoying the E&B moka pot with IMS screen. This has really improved the moka - it seems to easier to nail each time - nice clean cup and I don’t seem to be over extracting. I just pull it when I get the bug surge towards the end - and the water remaining in the tank is nice and clear.

                              Now all I seem to tinker with its the amount and grind size based on whichever coffee I am trying out.

                              Speaking of grind size - and always up for trying other stuff when a opportunity arises I purchased the Commandante C40 which came up on the forum.

                              I have to say its lovely - it feels very solidly built - its easy to clean - you have plenty of access and a good view through the grinder. Its weighty in the hand more than I expected after using the Omega. Nice smooth action - and feels good to use.

                              So what I like is the catch cup - does not hold onto the grinds - it being clear means I can see what left and how its lying when I flip it into the moka pot. The Omega being a solid aluminium cup - it seems a bit more sticky.

                              However the Omega has a very easy visible setting on the outside ring - and I have to keep resetting the C40 back to 0 before counting out the clicks - its not a big issue - more a slight annoyance.

                              Being the completist I am :) - I have picked up the red clix kit and the longer handle with the larger handle.

                              Having just also bought a Osmio Zero - its made my morning much simpler with the hot water on tap. It took about 4 tanks to get rid of that initial taste but its already a major part of the kitchen.

                              Lastly being a fan of the milk drinks - the practise is starting to pay off with the nanofoamer. I can not get a nice smooth mixture in about 30 seconds which probably would make good latte art if I was any good at doing it (which as yet I am not).

                              Main issue of course if the loss of heat - as you have to heat the milk first - then when you mix it with the nano - it will lose heat quite quickly. This is where having a steam wand would be great - patience is a virtue :)

                              Cheers

                              Matt

                                tompoland So now you have played with both the 9barista and Flair - how do you feel about them as first options into espresso (ignoring the portability as thats just a added bonus)

                                    MattH

                                    You can do a bit more quasi pressure profiling with a direct lever (by varying the pressure on the lever) and pulling the shot is always fun. The Flairs deliver superb espresso when done right but temperature accuracy and stability is not great other than with the Flair 58 electric, the latter which makes consistently good shots a lot easier.

                                    The 9barista makes making superb espresso easy because it limits the variables to heat/pressure (one leads to the other so they go hand in hand) and grind size. So while it’s easy to make great espresso it’s not going to easily produce a range of styles like a direct lever could. And it has a big advantage in its smaller footprint which will be more important to some than others.

                                    That said, I find that I generally use the same go to profile/preset/recipe for each machine. With the Nurri it’s a double ristretto, the Decent it’s a standard espresso and with the 9barista it’s… well, a 9 barista shot because it pretty much does just the one thing but dang it does it so well.

                                    But to your question: I think that a newbie will learn more about espresso making with a Flair 58 than with a 9barista. Temperature can be changed and pressure can be varied. And you could try different basket sizes.

                                    The 9barista is not going to give you as mush opportunity to experiment but I’d certainly recommend it as a first espresso machine for anyone who simply wanted great espresso without having to explore the rabbit hole.

                                        tompoland Now I want to see what sort of carry case you dream up for the 9 barista :)

                                            MattH just ordered the case so once I have it all sorted I’ll upload a pic or two.

                                            Afterthought re newbie and the Falir 58 vs 9Barista: if someone needs back to back shots for wife/hubby/SO/guests then the Flair 58 is the winner for that requirement. I’ve done back to back with the 9barista but it’s a bit of faffing around to get it cool enough for the 2nd shot quickly (think ice bath in kitchen sink!).

                                                tompoland I think I would be looking at the pro 2 flair not the 58 - though I realise its more of a faf temp wise at least that one is truelly portable and packable especially as counterspace is lacking here 😂

                                                    MattH I had the Flair Signature Pro 2 and really enjoyed it. I used it as a travel machine. The two best things I did with it were to buy the Flair temperature strip and put one on the boiler barrel thingy and to buy a pair of large tongs (surgical looking) which I’d use to fish the boiler barrel thingy out of a pot or kettle of boiling water.

                                                    Yes, a bit of faffing around but it saved filling the BBT (boiler barrel thingy) with boiling water three times to get it up to temperature.

                                                    With that method you can get really consistently good espresso 9 times out of 10.

                                                      tompoland Afterthought re newbie and the Falir 58 vs 9Barista: if someone needs back to back shots for wife/hubby/SO/guests then the Flair 58 is the winner for that requirement. I’ve done back to back with the 9barista but it’s a bit of faffing around to get it cool enough for the 2nd shot quickly (think ice bath in kitchen sink!).

                                                      I agree that pretty much every other espresso machine, including the Flair, can get from shot-to-shot faster than the 9Barista.

                                                      Just to provide some real world data, in my hands, it’s about 6-½ minutes start to finish from pouring shot #1, cooling down the 9Barista, cleaning it out, going through the espresso-making process, and pouring shot #2.

                                                      We do this pretty much every morning — one shot for my wife, and one shot for me. It works for us.

                                                      One other note — I just use the cold water from the tap to cool down the 9Barista. I hadn’t thought of the ice bath method, but the cooling down part doesn’t seem to be the rate-limiting step. Most of the time is still waiting for the 9Barista to come to a boil for extraction #2.