DavecUK I’m not sure. There is a single transaction for purchase of an espresso machine. You aren’t buying useless hardware and then entering a separate transaction for software.
Yes they tell you to self declare VAT but as they know they are shipping to UK and are already collecting and remitting Vat there is no good reason for them not to collect the full vat at point of sale other than saving customer on duty and allowing them to dodge vat to make their machines appear duty.

They are also arbitrarily deciding on a much lower value for duty (lovely round number their hardware happens to cost) which should be due on full amount and they dont tell you to self declare that.

Imagine of Tesla who sell direct did this where their value is also a large part from software, and where it’s partly explicitly paid for with FSD

    Back to things Decent.

    @tompoland @JammyDodger @Redla

    I watched John’s video on the new Grouphead design and its pretty compelling. He has incredible espresso machine design expertise. At a deep level of detail. And he is a great (in a positive sense) salesman. I’m sold on that upgrade.

    So, to avoid the “sloppy puck” issue referred to earlier in this post, if I swap out the brass part and wish to keep the same headspace as before, will the Sworksdesign Group Head Diffuser be sufficient or do I need the Sworksdesign Spacer Kit? What is your version and how is your Decent group head set up?

    Thanks @tompoland and the other Decent owners here.

      A sloppy puck is only a pain to clean, has no relevance to the shot

      Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

      A sloppy puck also becomes a dry puck if you leave it to drain for a few seconds while steaming milk.

      JHCCoffee as Jake alluded to, fortunately the goal is to make espresso and not pucks. That said, most people prefer drier pucks because whilst there doesn’t seem to be any effect on the espresso, drier pucks are less messy.

      I’ve had both the original decent set up. And then they sworksdesign kit. And now the latest decent group head kit. I switched to the latter for two reasons.

      1. I like to keep my Decent current with the latest updates and John’s commitment to ensuring that every owner has the option, via upgrades, to have the equivalent of the current latest model and therefore avoiding obsolescence, makes this possible. And he keeps these upgrades relatively affordable.

      2. The amount of testing that went into the design of the latest grouphead upgrade was such that I wasn’t tempted to second guess and go with alternatives.

      Hope that helps.

          MediumRoastSteam With all due respect… what an insulting statement…. Wow. Just wow.

          I sincerely apologize. My comments were not aimed at British citizens (”Brits”) but understandably may have been taken that way. I also do not at all chastise those of higher (or for that matter moderate or lower) net worth.

          I got carried away in the heat of the  discussion on Decent VAT, feeling (as Tom did) that John and his Decent team were being unfairly criticized; it’s a much more complex topic than just VAT.

          Sorry (as we Canadians say) for getting abit heated in my comments. I’m abit embarrassed. 😔I generally do not get heated in my reply posts, as it is not conducive to a friendly forum atmosphere. And friendliness is what I like about CoffeeTime.

          Btw, my compliments to @MediumRoastSteam
          for all of his selfless and most knowledgeable contributions to this most friendly Forum.

            And back to things coffee. Off to Vancouver Island for my daughter’s wedding. It will also be a portable coffee week and then fun learning thing’s Decent upon my return.

            JHCCoffee I have the brass parts and can get a fairly dry puck with a thin screen and paper filter on the bottom. I think it might depend on your pressure profile. I run ex-dos and aim for 20s ish and the pressure only spikes to 8/9 bars for ½ seconds. I could be wrong!

              Is the Decent tech completely reliant on a vibe pump?

              Given the petite footprint of them, I can see myself having one alongside the daily driver LM to faff with on occasion.

              It would need to have a rotary though so I wasn’t sure if that was even a possibility?

                Ernie1 I believe it uses two vibe pump’s into a water heater. That keeps the size down also.

                  Don’t think Ive ever seen a rotary decent.

                  Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

                    strange thing that cheaper E61 machines have rotary pumps. even on some compact models.

                    Well the cost of the decent is in the software..

                    Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

                      Wow yeah didn’t expect cost to be a factor given the price…

                      The price has increased quite a lot over the years but recently has dropped some.

                      Didn’t Jon buy the idea of the machine? Or did I dream that

                      Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

                        For a Decent DE1XXL espresso machine, retailing at £3,728 (plus I don’t know what else in taxes) - would customers really bind an eyelid if they decide to sell the machine for £3,999 (e.g.) and make it a rotary pump version? I doubt it.

                          MediumRoastSteam sorry for asking, English is not my native - do you mean that people will be fine with a 3999 GBP version with a rotary pump?

                          the phrase I am familiar with is “nobody bat an eye”. thanks, 9gag