Hoffman on the Duo
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DavecUK
Since ssp could supply lagom (before they developed their proprietary mizen burrs) as well as the sellers of df grinders like turin, wwould it be a problem for them to supply niche in sufficient volume?
The validated list can be a good solution. I would suggest however that if niche doesn’t want to supply ssp burrs with rhe grinder, they could sell a version of the grinder without any burrs but with just the burr carrier that will fit any burr on the validated list. Then the customer won’t need to pay for the mazzer burrs which means that he or she could spend the difference on the burrs they actually want to fit to the grinder.
Another solution for the high clarity customers is for niche to supply a suitable set from mazzer.
Has anyone microwaved their coffee beans then put them in a grinder
LMSC Niche isn’t the only one that prohibits tampering with the products under warranty. So, either we don’t buy it we don’t like, or wait until the warranty expiry or fiddle with it straightaway at our own risks. 😊
Such as? Fellow, Lagom, DF, Zerno, and the more premium brands are also are all fine with burr swapping and actively encourage it. Has no impact on their warranty or support. Really it’s no more intrusive than the sort of maintenance and cleaning you should be doing to the grinder periodically anyway.
And that’s @chlorox’s point, lots of potential customers just like them have not bought it precisely because there’s no support for other burrs. You only need to step out of the bubble of this forum to see there’s a demand for other options, regardless of your opinion on specific burrs.
But many on here seem to be wanting it both ways, telling people who want different burrs to shop for a grinder elsewhere but then also getting defensive when people actually criticise the mazzer espresso burrs you are stuck with as a result.
@chlorox dont think sigs are working again, cant see yours
in reference to ssp burrs,
ive just fit ssp mp burrs in the filter carriers, they are a smaller diameter than the mazzer which in turn gives wiggle room on the horizontal plan, i had to shim the outer to level it up, in contrast the mazzer burrs needed upside down tapping to remove,
Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -
chlorox It’s up to Niche & for that matter Mahlkonig, Eureka, Baratza, Mazzer etc. what burrs they offer in a new grinder, with warranty. I don’t think anyone is saying that it wouldn’t be nice if Niche offered a wider option, but that isn’t typical for grinder manufacturers.
Some do & that’s nice.
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FadedFrontiers Such as? Fellow,
You can get an Ode V1.1 with SSP MP burrs in the UK, but the cost of the burrs represents a big increase in cost +60%? This may be considered good value nevertheless, as it’s cheaper than buying the two separately.
Fellow’s warranty does not cover:
“Damage caused by accident, misuse, abuse, improper care, or repairs performed by unauthorized personnel.”
I’ve not defended, or otherwise any manufacturer, your perception of any defensiveness is incorrect. People are free to do what they want & I wish them good luck with whatever they choose to do.
MWJB I don’t think anyone is saying that it wouldn’t be nice if Niche offered a wider option, but that isn’t typical for grinder manufacturers
Aside from the fact there is users in this thread saying just that, it is typical for single dose grinder manufacturers now, yeah maybe not the old commercial companies but even they have started to sell alternatives to their standard burrs (including Mazzer).
Fellow’s warranty does not cover:
“Damage caused by accident, misuse, abuse, improper care, or repairs performed by unauthorized personnel.”
I’ve not defended, or otherwise any manufacturer, your perception of any defensiveness is incorrect. People are free to do what they want & I wish them good luck with whatever they choose to do.
Fellow sells aftermarket burrs on its site, shows you how to install them and even encouraged it well before they started selling them. Their support is pretty good even for user error and you’ve just quoted a generic warranty line that does not mention swapping burrs?
FadedFrontiers Fellow sells aftermarket burrs on its site, shows you how to install them and even encouraged it well before they started selling them. Their support is pretty good even for user error and you’ve just quoted a generic warranty line that does not mention swapping burrs?
Fiorenzato grinder warranty
Any replacements that have been made using non-original spare parts (please note that replacements with non-original spare parts, in addition to voiding the warranty, also invalidate the “Declaration of Conformity” that accompanies the appliance.
Macap General statement in user guides
MAINTENANCE Only trained personnel must carry out the maintenance work. If, during maintenance, any worn components need changing, only original spare parts must be used.
Ceado Maintenance statement in user guide (this applies to changing burrs)
Maintenance must be carried out exclusively by qualified technical personnel.Care for the mechanical and electrical parts of the appliance is indispensable in order to guarantee their safety and efficiency. If any parts need replaced, authentic spare parts must always be used. The burrs are subject to normal wear and the manufacturer recommends replacing them roughly every 600 kg for model E37S and every 1000 kg for model E92.
Mazzer general sale T&C
8.4 It remains understood that none of the aforementioned warranties covers: (1) the defects of the Products resulting from their unsuitable storage by the Client or by his or her assignees, or deriving from the production process, or in any case deriving from alterations or interventions, to which they were subjected at the Client’s location or at that of his or her assignees; (2) the defects attributable to the deterioration and/or normal wear of the Products; (3) the defects due to the Client’s negligence or improper use and/or incorrect installation of the Product; (4) the defects due to use and maintenance non compliant with the product sheet and/or the user manual.
I could go on with other makes…. but the general theme is that
- Authorised Personell
- Authorised or OEM parts
- Alterations
- Incorrect Maintenance
Invalidate the warranty and in all cases this would seem to apply to burrs. Whether it’s actively enforced or not is unknown.
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FadedFrontiers But many on here seem to be wanting it both ways, telling people who want different burrs to shop for a grinder elsewhere but then also getting defensive when people actually criticise the mazzer espresso burrs you are stuck with as a result.
It is great premium brands offer swapping without voiding warranty, subject to some fine prints. Good for the users and the company.
We all have a choice at the point of purchase, buying something with a clear knowledge we can’t swap if we want the warranty or swap voiding warranty. So, IMO, wanting both ways lies with the purchasing party and not elsewhere.
It would be great, if Niche can offer blank carries or offer non-mazzer burrs options at a cost difference. The technicalities of such choices are beyond me and ain’t interested in. 😊
I am also one of the purchasing parties and am not criticising or complaining, although I don’t find the coffee from espresso burrs having as much clarity as the filter burrs.
It doesn’t bother me as it is just a cuppa and not my life. 😁
Will I buy again? Sure, I will knowing fully well, what the cup will be.
Offering the carriers with 151B or 151F should happen. It will allow people to buy 1 carrier at the start and then upgrade to the duo.
Offering a premium mazzer burr as a 3rd option would be fantastic.
as stated before the burr would have to be mazzer imo as the ssp dont fit as well as the mazzer,
so unless mazzer offer different burrs to cater to the ssp market?
also depends how big that market really is, as ssp add $350 to the bill
Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -
DavecUK There is a general assumption that SSP burrs will transform grinders that I suspect is erroneous. Will they be different – yes; day and night different –no.
Niche could offer the high-clarity Mazzer 151H & 151G as an upgrade without any issues. That would likely satisfy most enthusiasts. The Duo already satisfies most consumers who just drink coffee and do not visit forums.
It’s far from unusual, and not just with grinders or even coffee gear more generally, for manufacturers to exclude warranty cover for non-original parts, and/or work by non-authorised personnel, and the logic behind that is pretty clear - if they haven’t tested a part, they don’t know if it’s suitable or not, or perhaps sufficiently durable or not.
So it’s common to exclude liability, which doesn’t mean that they can’t honour the warranty despite not being obliged to, if when they see a failed product, the failure is nothing to do with the unauthorised part. Legally, they’re on safer ground by excluding liability and then repairing broken equipment provided the fault wasn’t due to non-authorised parts, than if they hadn’t excluded that and then try to reject a claim when the user does something or uses something that caused damage.
On the same lines, if they supply a model with blank carriers and no burrs, an argument could be made that by doing so they’re encouraging users to try alternate burrs that might be incompatible, or wrongly fitted, and that as a result, they could be held liable. By not providing a burr-less option, they precude that argument from being made.
I have absolutely no knowledge of what Niche’s reasons for what they do or don’t offer, and this legalistic approach might be nothing to do with their decisions. I’m not a lawyer but I have seen that approach taken in other non-coffee product lines, for the reasoning outlined here.
In other words, their reasoning might be as simple as “lawyers said don’t do it, it might bite you”. That certainly wouldn’t surprise me, but I’ve … excuse the pun, Zero knowledge of what their reasoning actually was.
As for JH’s review, I found it interesting, particular the similarity in profiles in his graphs. It does somewhat undermine the flat v conical argument though, at least in as far as saying it’s not that simple.
Personally, as I think I said I another thread, I’m pretty happy with the Zero, and now after watching that, even more don’t regret my decision not to buy a Duo. Part (a large part, to be honest) of my reasoning is that I’m not convinced my taste buds are good enough to tell much of a difference anyway, and as I get a cup I enjoy from the Zero, it’s good enough for me. That’s not to say anyone else shouldn’t go Duo if they feel they’ll benefit - their taste buds may well be better than mine, or even if not, they may just want to try the Duo and, why not?
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DavecUK
One important difference is that all the companies you named make their own burrs and make their grinders primarily for the commercial cafe whereby even mazzer which is now launching their philos is making even that grinder primarily for cafe’s more than for the home market.
On the other hand niche is in the same class as lagom and other such companies that make only single dosing grinders for the home enthusiast market, which is very much into burr swapping, and that do not make their own burrs (lagom only recently making their own burrs).
Anyway the ideal and best way is for niche to themselves offer the ssp burr option or alternatively some other high clarity burr as an option. Then the motivation to burr swap is minimised.