chlorox The Chinese are pleased for folks to take a cheap, bang ordinary grinder and replace their on the whole pretty poor burrs if fitting SSP or similar suddenly makes it a go to item…….Niche are not
Hoffman on the Duo
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chlorox I am bemused by why merely questioning if adding a burr option would be a good idea for the niche is found by some of the people here to be almost heretical…
I think SSP burrs are good, very well made, slightly different flavour profile..Not as huge a difference as some make out, however Mazzer and SSP I do believe make some of the finest burrs out there. .
I don’t agree that Niche should supply SSP burrs, that’s very difficult to do in quantity and makes the situation complex. I thought about whether they should supply the grinder with No burrs, just empty carriers….which is also problematic, because it’s then becomes difficult to test the grinders, especially as Niche test a large proportion of all their grinders to ensure customer satisfaction and the quality of what they produce.
I do agree with you wholeheartedly that Niche could produce a Validated burrs list that would basically not invalidate your warranty by using them except of course, should you damage the carriers (grinder) installing said burrs…e.g strip threads, dropping them and bending a sweep arm etc…. The grinder is clearly capable of handling any burr thrown at it as it’s probably the only grinder out there that can chew through 18g of green coffee!!
Their difficulty would be dealing with the large number of inevitable questions from people saying “this burr isn’t on your list, do you support it?”, or the equally irritating “Do you intend to support these burrs?”. These questions will arise even if they put, please don’t ask these sort of questions…the list is the list. The other issue is grind time, different burrs may well extend grind time, again a potential cause of questions “I saw a video, it ground in 22s, I put validated burrs in now it’s taking x seconds, is something wrong”. Never underestimate the ability for people to ask questions that make you scratch your heat or think RTFM, or more properly RTFW (ebsite).
Mazzer production processes are super consistent and the burrs always stay within very tight tolerance for thickness and diameter….SSP might well introduce different thicknesses and diameters. I’m not sure they do and the ones I have seem very consistent, but it’s a very small sample…whereas I checked a very large quantity of Mazzer 83mm burrs.
SSP from time to time bring out new burrs and retire old ones…but it’s not hard to ask SSP for a sample of new SSP burrs as they come out and validate them.
The final point to consider is that Mazzer have been good for Niche and supply the very large number of burrs required for the Niche Zero and over the years a great deal of confidence has built up not only on Mazzers ability to supply in quantity, but at a consistently high quality.
So validation I think could and should be done, but not having different burr options for sale. You buy it with 1 or 2 carriers, already fitted with Mazzer burrs….then later are free to use any burrs on the validated list.
P.S. As for the Chinese burrs, for me the jury is out on those and why people suddenly think they are fantastic based on what influencers say….is beyond me. And for longevity, who knows.
If warranty is important, then don’t mess with it. It may be difficult to establish if the user error has resulted in something not working. Niche isn’t the only one that prohibits tampering with the products under warranty. So, either we don’t buy it we don’t like, or wait until the warranty expiry or fiddle with it straightaway at our own risks. 😊
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DavecUK
Since ssp could supply lagom (before they developed their proprietary mizen burrs) as well as the sellers of df grinders like turin, wwould it be a problem for them to supply niche in sufficient volume?
The validated list can be a good solution. I would suggest however that if niche doesn’t want to supply ssp burrs with rhe grinder, they could sell a version of the grinder without any burrs but with just the burr carrier that will fit any burr on the validated list. Then the customer won’t need to pay for the mazzer burrs which means that he or she could spend the difference on the burrs they actually want to fit to the grinder.
Another solution for the high clarity customers is for niche to supply a suitable set from mazzer.
Has anyone microwaved their coffee beans then put them in a grinder
LMSC Niche isn’t the only one that prohibits tampering with the products under warranty. So, either we don’t buy it we don’t like, or wait until the warranty expiry or fiddle with it straightaway at our own risks. 😊
Such as? Fellow, Lagom, DF, Zerno, and the more premium brands are also are all fine with burr swapping and actively encourage it. Has no impact on their warranty or support. Really it’s no more intrusive than the sort of maintenance and cleaning you should be doing to the grinder periodically anyway.
And that’s @chlorox’s point, lots of potential customers just like them have not bought it precisely because there’s no support for other burrs. You only need to step out of the bubble of this forum to see there’s a demand for other options, regardless of your opinion on specific burrs.
But many on here seem to be wanting it both ways, telling people who want different burrs to shop for a grinder elsewhere but then also getting defensive when people actually criticise the mazzer espresso burrs you are stuck with as a result.
@chlorox dont think sigs are working again, cant see yours
in reference to ssp burrs,
ive just fit ssp mp burrs in the filter carriers, they are a smaller diameter than the mazzer which in turn gives wiggle room on the horizontal plan, i had to shim the outer to level it up, in contrast the mazzer burrs needed upside down tapping to remove,
Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -
chlorox It’s up to Niche & for that matter Mahlkonig, Eureka, Baratza, Mazzer etc. what burrs they offer in a new grinder, with warranty. I don’t think anyone is saying that it wouldn’t be nice if Niche offered a wider option, but that isn’t typical for grinder manufacturers.
Some do & that’s nice.
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FadedFrontiers Such as? Fellow,
You can get an Ode V1.1 with SSP MP burrs in the UK, but the cost of the burrs represents a big increase in cost +60%? This may be considered good value nevertheless, as it’s cheaper than buying the two separately.
Fellow’s warranty does not cover:
“Damage caused by accident, misuse, abuse, improper care, or repairs performed by unauthorized personnel.”
I’ve not defended, or otherwise any manufacturer, your perception of any defensiveness is incorrect. People are free to do what they want & I wish them good luck with whatever they choose to do.
MWJB I don’t think anyone is saying that it wouldn’t be nice if Niche offered a wider option, but that isn’t typical for grinder manufacturers
Aside from the fact there is users in this thread saying just that, it is typical for single dose grinder manufacturers now, yeah maybe not the old commercial companies but even they have started to sell alternatives to their standard burrs (including Mazzer).
Fellow’s warranty does not cover:
“Damage caused by accident, misuse, abuse, improper care, or repairs performed by unauthorized personnel.”
I’ve not defended, or otherwise any manufacturer, your perception of any defensiveness is incorrect. People are free to do what they want & I wish them good luck with whatever they choose to do.
Fellow sells aftermarket burrs on its site, shows you how to install them and even encouraged it well before they started selling them. Their support is pretty good even for user error and you’ve just quoted a generic warranty line that does not mention swapping burrs?
FadedFrontiers Fellow sells aftermarket burrs on its site, shows you how to install them and even encouraged it well before they started selling them. Their support is pretty good even for user error and you’ve just quoted a generic warranty line that does not mention swapping burrs?
Fiorenzato grinder warranty
Any replacements that have been made using non-original spare parts (please note that replacements with non-original spare parts, in addition to voiding the warranty, also invalidate the “Declaration of Conformity” that accompanies the appliance.
Macap General statement in user guides
MAINTENANCE Only trained personnel must carry out the maintenance work. If, during maintenance, any worn components need changing, only original spare parts must be used.
Ceado Maintenance statement in user guide (this applies to changing burrs)
Maintenance must be carried out exclusively by qualified technical personnel.Care for the mechanical and electrical parts of the appliance is indispensable in order to guarantee their safety and efficiency. If any parts need replaced, authentic spare parts must always be used. The burrs are subject to normal wear and the manufacturer recommends replacing them roughly every 600 kg for model E37S and every 1000 kg for model E92.
Mazzer general sale T&C
8.4 It remains understood that none of the aforementioned warranties covers: (1) the defects of the Products resulting from their unsuitable storage by the Client or by his or her assignees, or deriving from the production process, or in any case deriving from alterations or interventions, to which they were subjected at the Client’s location or at that of his or her assignees; (2) the defects attributable to the deterioration and/or normal wear of the Products; (3) the defects due to the Client’s negligence or improper use and/or incorrect installation of the Product; (4) the defects due to use and maintenance non compliant with the product sheet and/or the user manual.
I could go on with other makes…. but the general theme is that
- Authorised Personell
- Authorised or OEM parts
- Alterations
- Incorrect Maintenance
Invalidate the warranty and in all cases this would seem to apply to burrs. Whether it’s actively enforced or not is unknown.