Where’s your palate at?
Adrianmsmith I’m not denying that people enjoy milky coffee drinks. But I also believe that straight espresso can be delicious to anyone. Assuming it’s prepared correctly 🙂👍
Flair 58, Mahlkonig EK43, Kinu M47, 1zpresso ZP6.
More defensive stuff. I reckon some people here need a cupping session with a good teacher! 😅👍
Flair 58, Mahlkonig EK43, Kinu M47, 1zpresso ZP6.
Adrianmsmith Both are enjoyable to those that enjoy them. I have, in the past, very much enjoyed coffee with milk. Sadly, this option was taken from me, rather than a conscious decision, or choice. So now, mainly black coffee for me unless a non-dairy option is available (I don’t stock milk at home).
Nevertheless, coffee with/without milk has a taste…surely this can be discussed?
I’ve never heard anyone say coffee with milk is not enoyable. I have heard people express a preference/requirement for coffee without. It’s not necessarily a slur on adding milk. Besides, you make coffee with water, at this point extraction has happened…from now on the addition of milk is an adjustment/dilution of the coffee made.
JimmyP But I also believe that straight espresso can be delicious to anyone. Assuming it’s prepared correctly
I always prepare it correctly and deliciously, by adding it to milk ☕
Ade Smith. ACS Evo Leva v2. Kafatek Flat max 2, ssw 2024. Mazzer Philos, Craig Lyn HG-1 prime., WW key mk1.
MWJB Sadly, this option was taken from me, rather than a conscious decision, or choice.
I understand this as my wife has relatively recently become dairy intolerant and more recently been told to avoid caffeine, hence my posts about a separate decaf grinder .
She has water added and occasionally a latte with almond milk.
I can drink espresso with water added 1:2 usually as a minimum, i just find a straight shot too short for one thing but too intense also.
Im not saying everyone should be the same.
Similarly i like single malt scotch whisky (straight of course) but do not like rum, but ive nothing against run drinkers 🥰
A tot of irish whisky is great in a latte.
Ade Smith. ACS Evo Leva v2. Kafatek Flat max 2, ssw 2024. Mazzer Philos, Craig Lyn HG-1 prime., WW key mk1.
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JimmyP Because if you’re going to brew as espresso, or as drip/any other percolation, it needs to work via that method & resulting higher extraction.
You also need to be more specific with the word ‘cupping’, the SCAA heavily formalised a cupping protocol (e.g. time in the roaster, ground colour on the Agtron scale, grind size, brew ratio & steep times, they have made a few, non-critical, changes since), but most people show no evidence of adhering to this and do whatever they feel like ‘in-house’. Even the SCAA standards are a bit of a mish-mash of pre existing works that they shoe-horned into a single recommendation.
Besides, cupping was innovated a hundred years prior to the SCAA’s existence and little in the way of documentation, nor specs remain beyond using 5oz rocks glasses and 7.3g of coffee. It was a diagnostic exercise to eliminate the risk associated with buying lots based purely on a promise and a handshake, it’s a QC for green buyers, not a ‘magic eye’ into production roasts.
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Adrianmsmith Similarly i like single malt scotch whisky (straight of course) but do not like rum, but ive nothing against run drinkers
I like malts, mostly Islay, some with water , some straght, or straight to start, then with water.
I didn’t know I liked rum until my brother gifted me a bottle of Brugal 1888 and a didn’t know what I was drinking.
The best spirit/liqueur in coffee is white Sambuca :-)
JimmyP Looking for better roasted coffee all the time. My palate only has to please me (and those I brew for), I’m not taking any position on what anyone else needs to buy/do/perceive/prefer.
I do, seriously, often wonder if I am doing it all wrong, I do try many brewer & method recommendations, as well as trying coffee when out & about. I’m yet to encounter any evidence that I am doing it all wrong (maybe just occasionally, when exploring different methods/gear).
Always open to enlightenment if you have any suggestions?
JimmyP Exactly what I find ideal for my preference in espresso only… A dialed in Silvia Pro, recently did a pump swap so I can push extractions into the 90+ second range if I choose. Grinder is a Baratza Forte AP as I find the ceramics in this dialed in little beast to give superior grind quality/fines that just beat anything else I’ve used to this point. Over the yrs I’ve had various machines and grinders (flat and conical) and so far nothing else has matched this setup for taste and especially texture that I prefer. My preference is what I term insanely restricted extractions as in averaging using 20 grams of coffee depending on fineness/density, ending up with ⅔ of an oz in the demitasse. Restricted to the point of not seeing the 1st drop until upwards of 30 seconds and then push the extraction another 30-45 seconds. Melted honey butter sums up the viscosity and just outstanding taste/smoothness most of the time. Of course not all coffees will excel at this point. I also strongly prefer dry process (natural) over any other process method, mainly Yemen/Brazil offerings and take pretty much every coffee to a full city range.
Having a very capable setup my focus for some time has been on green selection/roast development as I can get exactly what I want in the demitasse by tweaking those variables. That can’t be done if you’re stuck buying roasted coffee regardless of changes made.
We all have varying experience, expectations, etc. and I will honestly say I’m missing out on nothing as I get exactly what I like with my daily fix. Been at this a fair number of years and estimate I’ve consumed upwards of 30K extractions so yeah I definitely know precisely what I want and how to achieve that. I don’t buy into palate improvement, cupping, what have you. Those that think their palate needs ‘training’ needs to figure out what THEY like in taste/aroma, not what others prefer as taste will always be subjective regardless of the spin some wanna put on it. IMBHO cupping is a waste of coffee to begin with unless you’re a commercial roaster with paying customers depending on it. Trying to cup specifically for espresso is a joke as that will never duplicate the changes in coffee/pressure being applied a week or more post roast.
JimmyP To claim improvement is an opinion and not much else. Different isn’t necessarily better.
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JimmyP what happens if it is that obscurity you are after? No one denies a single malt whisky has a unique set of characteristics but there are still many people who prefer it with ice
It’s pretty simple really. Milk will obscure the flavour of the coffee 🤷♂️
MWJB Who in their right mind follows someone else’s guidelines to begin with? Been in coffee awhile now and have never given SCAA ‘standards’ the least bit of respect and simply won’t. That sort of thing is like an industry claiming ’this is how it SHOULD be and if not then you’re doing it wrong!'… people need to figure things out to work in their favor and ignore idiotic guidelines.