Since getting into this coffee making malarky, whilst I have got a Clever Dripper I used to use for work and still break out on occasion, I have never tried what I get the impression are considered the more 'high end' pour over methods, such as the Chemex and V60. So, are they worth a go and if so, which one would you recommend? I know the V60 is half the price of the Chemex but that isn't an issue. I get the impression most on here mainly stick to espresso based drinks… or do you?

> @"Pompeyexile"#p6663 I get the impression most on here mainly stick to espresso based drinks… or do you? I've been on Pourover for the last week. A bit longer than usual, but I'm doing some testing.

I haven’t entered the world of espresso drinks just yet. Was put off by the learning curve but I’m becoming increasingly tempted. I have a Hario v60 which I use most days and really like it. Find it simple to use, good for single cups of coffee and think it makes a really good cup with the right grind setting & method. As for method I use this: [James Hoffmann ultimate v60 technique](https://youtu.be/AI4ynXzkSQo)

> @"DavecUK"#p6665 I’ve been on Pourover for the last week. A bit longer than usual, but I’m doing some testing. So, what are you using? Or are you testing various jobbies?

> @"Pompeyexile"#p6668 So, what are you using? Or are you testing various jobbies? A simple setup, the plastic lid is from something else, but I find it helps keep the heat in. [upl-image-preview url=//i.imgur.com/jptjyj6.jpeg]

Ah, is that the V60 you are using?

@"DavecUK"#p6665 Chemex & V60 (drip/percolation) aren't more "high end" than Clever (immersion), they are a different & quicker brew method, unless you are targeting lower extractions (which is what you mostly get with Clever, unless steeping long). I almost never use my Chemex, I use V60 most often. You will need a gooseneck pouring kettle, an electric one would be great, don't worry about temp control. For small cups (

I exclusively drank pour over for the last 10 years or so before getting an Espresso machine last month. I enjoy the process of brewing with them so reckon they will continue to feature in my coffee rotation. I love my clever dripper, easily the most forgivable brewer I have. I also have a v60 and Kalita Wave but find them both pretty fussy. I have as many poor brews as I do good brews if I get one of the many variables slightly off. I do also have a chemex which I don’t use very often, it’s only the small one so the neck is a really steep angle and small surface area for the coffee bed which I don’t think makes for the best brewer.

@"Mark-drinks-coffee"#p6676 V60 & Kalita are measurably consistent. Also, in many comparisons I have done I haven't noticed a preference in taste from any of them, assuming they are dialled in (e.g. the main variable is the coffee itself regarding taste, but nothing in the mechanics of brewing). With any of them, if thy are hit & miss, it's an idea to re-assess the brew regime.

A clever and v60 have been my main brewers for a while. I did both short and long steeps in the clever until I got the v60. Then the clever became long steep only (45min+) with shorter brews in the v60. I'll often make a Clever and then make a v60, so can come back to a second cup not that long after the first. The difference is nice I find. That said, I have always struggled with 'mainstream' v60 methods/ recipes - including from the likes of Hoffman and Sprometheus. I use @"MWJB"#139 method using 18g and 270ml at a grind setting of c.83 on the niche. I do want to experiment with other methods, but I've found the above so reliable that it's difficult to get out of the comfort zone.

@"MWJB"#p6680 I have no doubt it’s my own skill (or lack of) that introduces the inconsistencies. I’m sure both can produce consistent, excellent results. I just need to spend some time with them both, dialling in and working on repeating the recipe correctly. Just easier to stay in a habit of using a clever which is pour and forget and generally much more forgiving.

Pour Over Predicament

Pompeyexile

spasypaddy if i had more time in the day i’d make more pour overs but work stops that ha

The one thing about being retired is whilst time may not be on my side (nearer the top of the ladder of life) I do have time on my hands. So, I guess if I wanted to I could make enough pour over to bath in… wouldn’t fancy drinking if after though.

hornbyben

Pompeyexile it’s probably not the cheapest way to fake tan 🤣

ChristosC

Predominantly an enthusiast of espresso (and espresso based beverages), I got into the pourover world after my wife bought me a Hario V60 for Xmas.

Easy, ‘no fuss’ brewer to get great coffee out in less than 5 mins (including the preparation). Loads of (pretty similar) recipes out on the web to make life easier.

Yesterday, I tried a light to medium El Salvadorian roast from Chimney Fire that came with my Dog and Hat subscirption, and I like with the ‘clean’ and distinct flavours I am getting…although unable to taste the ‘wine gum’ (really, what is it?) that the roaster mentions😁.

Pompeyexile

Well my V60 arrived today…It’s the 01 version and I thought it was good for two cups but it loks a bit small to me. I could only get about 130-40 ml in it.

Got to admit though the glass is a lot thicker than I expected.

Oh well, I guess i’ll have to order an 02 now (plastic Dave) which at £6 won’t break the bank.

MWJB

Pompeyexile It doesn’t need to hold all the brew water, so you can feasibly brew 2 cups with an 01.

It can get a bit messy trying to pick up wet doses of more than 18g in an 01 paper though. I prefer to make 2 separate brews than to make 2 cups from 1 brewer.

DavecUK

I am genuinely trepidatious in making brewed coffee for Mark…next time..

LMSC

For brew, I almost always use Clever long steep, that too trusted Mark’s recipe!

The Indian filter and Aero Press are gathering dusts. I don’t use them unless some one disappoint me with a bag of coffee powder — it is always a KG of this coffee purchased locally in the UK! 😨

One of our friends told us they have another KG of this s*** . It’s not funny when we get a bag like this. 😑

Elsewhere, I would love get V60, but don’t want to get a gooseneck kettle, after purchasing Osmio Zero. 😊

Pompeyexile

So, what do people on here generally call one cup in ml? I thought it would be about 230 - 240ml. Having said that, when saying cup I mean mug. But as I say, about 130-140ml is the 01 limit which is quite a bit less.

When you say it doesn’t have to hold all the brew water, do you mean pour in the 140ml let it drain down a bit then add the final 100ml?

Also, just out of interest, if you were brewing to get 230/240ml out, how many gramms of coffee would you generally use…15-16g?

hornbyben

Pompeyexile I frequently do 250ml with a size 01 v60. Coffee dose I usually use is 15g.

People use it in different ways. Some pour in batches, such as 50g every 45s, others do a slow pour to keep it full until they hit target weight.

The approach I’ve settled on is:

Rinse the paper with boiling water
- this makes sure you don’t get any flavour from the paper and pre-warms your cup
add your coffee (15g) and stir it in the middle to make a hole
- the aim here is to avoid a really deep middle where the coffee in the bottom doesn’t get wet when you add the water. I use the handle of a teaspoon
add 30-45g of water to bloom the coffee (start your timer when you start pouring)
- this lets the CO2 from roasting escape so the coffee is fully wetted. You should see bubbles.
8 stirs from the edge to the middle, e.g. insert the spoon handle at the 12 O’clock position and pull to the middle, repeat from 6, 3, 9, 1.5, 7.5, 4.5 and 10.5 o’clock positions
- this might sound too much, but I saw some studies where it improved extraction. The idea is really just to make sure there aren’t any dry spots. It doesn’t take very long.
At 30s pour in your water slowly until the cone is full, and keep pouring slowly until you hit 250g
- size 01 cool quite quickly, so the aim of this approach is to maximise the heat retention by keeping the volume as high as possible. I don’t have a gooseneck, but can get a similar size stream of water from my normal kettle if I’m careful
let it drain a bit and then do a quick swirl to level the bed
wait until it’s all drained
enjoy

I know written instructions can be harder to interpret, so here are a couple of videos that should give you some ideas of approaches (if you search on YouTube there are loads of tutorials)

MWJB

Pompeyexile If 1 mug is 230-240ml of finished coffee, I’d start with an 18g dose & 270g of brew water. Here’s my regime for brewing with a courser end of drip grind.

DavecUK

Wow, I’m not doing any of this right….I will have to film what I do. I do use a spoon, but not like you think

hornbyben

DavecUK surely the fun part is there’s no such thing as right. That’s what makes it so frustrating. There’s always something different you can try 🤣.

Pompeyexile, in glad you enjoyed it

Pompeyexile

Well I did my first attempt using your method Hornbyben and it tasted lovely! Not bitter or harsh but just a lovely cup and yes, the India Monsoon Malabar AA from Rave which says has a smokey flavour profile is actually something I am getting.

Wonderful!

Pompeyexile

hornbyben surely the fun part is there’s no such thing as right. That’s what makes it so frustrating. There’s always something different you can try 🤣.

You are right.

I’m thinking next time to try it when there’s a full moon and Venus is in conjunction with Jupiter, standing on one leg whilst emitting a medieval gregorian chant and wearing nothing but a marino woollen thong.

Perhaps then I’ll get the cocolate and cedar flavour notes too.

Pompeyexile

Thanks MWJB.

So, that’s about a 6.7% ratio which I believe is what the Hoffmeister recommends. I’ll give that a go too and coursen my grind a little.

Grahamsphillips

root I just came across this thread..I’ve been collecting brewers (I know, I know) inc the TRICOLATE with which I’ve had some great successes and great failures! I pretty much follow Scott Rao’s recipe. Anyways maybe create a thread on Flat Bottomed brewers in general? (( ordered an OREAD too so lots to compare)

gotters

I just took delivery of an Orea v3 flat bottom with some Kalita papers - first brew was an eye opener. I used the same beans I’ve been enjoying in my Clever recently, at very similar ratio and same grind - used Orea’s suggested 18g to 300ml in 5 pours which took about 2m30s total time.

Cup feels so much more extracted, much stronger bigger taste verses the 20g to 350ml I brew in my Clever for 5m. Feels far more caffeinated too, I’m not particularly caffeine sensitive but buzzing off my nut after drinking it !

LMSC

I have kept a simple brew regime. The v60 for a short steep and Clever for a long steep, which is usually 30 mins - 45 mins.

While @MWJB will advise you on your brews, I think the different strength levels between Orea and Clever are because the latter requires a long steep of at least 20 mins or more. This will also allow you to grind finer for Clever.

IMO, if you want a good comparison, you might pick up a V60.

gotters

I’ve got a Hario Switch I’ve not played with much, which if I understand correctly with the valve open is pretty similar if not identical to a V60.

I’m just really surprised at how different the same beans/grind/ratio can be in such a quick time when brewed a bit differently in a flat bottom pour over vs an immersion conical.

MWJB

gotters

The flat bottom v conical brewer is less relevant. It’s more the pour over vs immersion - pourover washes out the coffee, the hot water in the coffee bed is continually replaced. In immersion the coffee sits in the same, cooling water, gradually leeching out the solubles.

CoyoteOldMan

DavecUK I have an espresso machine (well a few of them)

And the prize for “understatement of the year” goes to…

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