MaraX low steam pressure?

fl13dl1c3

Hi all,

This is my first machine, just purchased this past week. I have the MaraX set up in brew priority mode, and the temperature setting I (on the left side).

I’ve noticed that my steam pressure never gets to 1.5 bars, it maxes out at the reading right between 1 and 1.5 bars, assume 1.25 bars? This is after I pull a shot, or if I activate the lever and flush the steam wand to get the steam to pressure.

I’ve seen other workflows and videos of users that have their steam pressure at 1.5 bars so I’m wondering if there’s something wrong with my machine? For what it’s worth, while steaming the pressure stays right around 1 bar - so I can still steam my milk, but not at the same speed or temperature.

Any insights? Thank you!

MediumRoastSteam

fl13dl1c3 - check this thread - any resemblance?

https://coffeetime.freeflarum.com/d/186-lelit-marax-firmware-flashing

Makes me wonder whether they have updated the firmware….

DavecUK

fl13dl1c3 The other thing to check is that you are not in HX mode. The smaller 2 position switch on the right when you remove the drop tray.

What are the pressures shown when you’re not using the machine to make coffee.

Doram

fl13dl1c3 Any insights? Thank you!

As MediumRoastSteam said, have a look at the link to the other thread because you might have a similar issue. I doubt that this is intended or the result of a new firmware, as 1) It doesn’t make sense that Lelit intentionally changed the firmware so that you will have 1 bar of pressure when steaming; and 2) The other user experiencing this (@MisterH1337) contacted Lelit and they confirmed that it is not right (and the latest we heard they suggested replacing the Gicar box).

If you upload a video of your machine’s manometer during use (or even better, a time lapse video of the manometer when you start your machine from cold for about half an hour), it will be easier to confirm if the behaviour is normal or not. Alternatively, have a look at the videos uploaded to the other thread and see if your machine behaves similarly to @MisterH1337’s or to a machine that doesn’t have the issue.

fl13dl1c3

DavecUK The other thing to check is that you are not in HX mode. The smaller 2 position switch on the right when you remove the drop tray.

It’s on the brew priority mode (ModeX) in the top I position.

I believe the steam pressure sits around 0.5 bars to 0.875 bars(?) (the middle of the 0.75 bars to 1 bar marker) after the machine has been on and warmed up 30+ minutes.

Doram As MediumRoastSteam said, have a look at the link to the other thread because you might have a similar issue

I watched some videos and it seems pretty similar to MisterH1337. From cold to warmup, my max steam pressure goes to 2 bars, vesus watching Doram’s timelapse that goes up to 2.75 bars.

I’ve never steamed two milk jugs back to back so I don’t know if the second steaming would result in pressure dropping below 1 bar. I ran a test after the machine was on 30+ minutes, flushed it to get the boiler running and steam pressure maxed at 1.25bars. Then “steamed” for 30+ seconds (letting it run without steaming anything), it ran at 1 bar in its entirety. Turned off the steam. Waited 15 seconds or so, turned the steam back on to run for 30+ seconds and it started off running at 1 bar, but dropped slightly to 0.8 bar for a couple of seconds before going back up to 1 bar the rest of the time.

As for my expectations in steaming and whether it’s actually working fine and just the manometer reading incorrectly - I don’t have a baseline as to what to expect from steaming as this is my first machine. My milk jug gets hot to the touch enough that I can’t hold it for >1 second so that’s when I presume the temperature is hot enough.

MediumRoastSteam Makes me wonder whether they have updated the firmware….

Not sure if this tidbit of info is helpful but my machine was manufactured May 2021

MediumRoastSteam

fl13dl1c3 My milk jug gets hot to the touch enough that I can’t hold it for >1 second so that’s when I presume the temperature is hot enough.

How long does it take for you to steam your milk? How much cold milk is in the jug, and which type of milk? Thanks.

Irrespective, I’d log the issue with the retailer in case you decide to return your machine.

Doram

fl13dl1c3 I believe the steam pressure sits around 0.5 bars to 0.875 bars(?) (the middle of the 0.75 bars to 1 bar marker) after the machine has been on and warmed up 30+ minutes.

You say steam pressure sits around 0.5 yo 0.875 bar, but then you say this is after the machine warmed up for 30+ minutes. Do you mean that this is the idle brew pressure? (because what you describe sounds like this is the idle brew pressure [which would be absolutely fine], but you call it “steam pressure” [which absolutely isn’t fine]).

In any case, you say your machine maxes at 2 bar during the warmup cycle. This, as far as I know, isn’t how it should work. You haven’t uploaded a video, but from what you say you have a similar issue to @MisterH1337 (maybe not as bad, but the same sort of thing). If this is the case, I think the first suspects are the temp probes, followed by the Gicar box.

If I were you, I would make this time-lapse video, share it with your retailer and/or Lelit and ask for the machine to be replaced (or fixed, if you don’t have that option).

DavecUK

One thought for both of you….many Lelit machines because of their price are often purchased 1st time users, so never discount user error initially. Video evidence is always a great idea, as their description of the problem can often lead us astray. I remember once a person logged a fault with a machine, because it didn’t work when they lifted the lever….they were not lifting the lever past the mid position!

I have actually had a great deal of trouble following the OP posts of the issue, because certain things are imprecise, leaving hanging questions..

is this all the time
is the user flushing the machine when they shouldn’t, because you flush HXs don’t you?
are they using the hot water tap and drawing a lot of water (because it’s there to be used, right
steamed, how much, to what temp (maintaining 1 bar is pretty good if i’m honest (is there a clue here?)
what country are they in (USA), is the programming slightly different?
30 minutes is in reality just properly warmed up and the machine may not react the same as 1 hour in because it’s still sinking heat.
was it purchased new/used, what’s the date of manufacture on the rating plate

fl13dl1c3 I’ve never steamed two milk jugs back to back so I don’t know if the second steaming would result in pressure dropping below 1 bar. I ran a test after the machine was on 30+ minutes, flushed it to get the boiler running and steam pressure maxed at 1.25bars. Then “steamed” for 30+ seconds (letting it run without steaming anything), it ran at 1 bar in its entirety. Turned off the steam. Waited 15 seconds or so, turned the steam back on to run for 30+ seconds and it started off running at 1 bar, but dropped slightly to 0.8 bar for a couple of seconds before going back up to 1 bar the rest of the time.

It’s why I asked the question about HX mode…I will have to go back and check my review, but if I remember correctly it has a standby mode, is he in this?

Assume no knowledge as his first post starts with the words “this is my first machine”

fl13dl1c3

@Doram
I checked your other video in the thread referenced with your machine @ Steam priority mode & PID setting 2.
Your machine showed steam pressure idling around 1.5 bars. Mine is sitting at 1.25 bars after switching it to the steam mode, PID setting 2 after the machine was warmed up for 45+ minutes.

I found this advanced technical manual for the machine here:
https://www.home-barista.com/downloads/Lelit_MaraX_PL62X_Explanation.pdf

And my steam pressure gauge does not match the expected pressures in steam priority mode (page 2 - 3).
In setting 0 my gauge sits at 0.75 bars (manual shows it at 1 bar)
In setting 1 my gauge sits at 1 bar (manual shows it at 1.25 bars)
In setting 2 my gauge sits at 1.25 bars (manual shows it at 1.5 bars)

Something doesn’t seem right after looking at all of this and experimenting and comparing…

MediumRoastSteam

Doram idle brew pressure?

What’s idle brew pressure? 😉 - if the pump is not engaged and not brewing, shouldn’t the brew pressure be 0?

Doram

MediumRoastSteam What’s idle brew pressure? 😉 - if the pump is not engaged and not brewing, shouldn’t the brew pressure be 0?

I know you are joking, but there are people here new to the hobby so as not to confuse them:

This is the pressure that the Mara X idles at after warmup, ready to brew a shot. OP described his machine as being at the right pressure for that idling, but called it “steam pressure”, so I was trying to confirm what he actually meant. Maybe “idle brew pressure” isn’t the best term, so you are welcome to suggest something better. ;-)

MediumRoastSteam

Doram I know you are joking

Nope! I’m dead serious. 🤣😊👍

I thinking you might call it “idling service boiler pressure”, but I think, IMO, the OPs terminology is better than idling brew pressure, which alludes to the pressure in the brew circuit (I.e.: the bottom half of the gauge).

I see what you were trying to say though - I think you refer to “brew pressure” because the machine is idling in brew priority mode. To me, regardless of the mode the machine is in, the top half of the gauge shows the service boiler pressure (aka steam pressure) and the bottom half the brew pressure (aka pump pressure).

Semantics hey… 😊👍

Doram

MediumRoastSteam I thinking you might call it “idling service boiler pressure”, but I think, IMO, the OPs terminology is better than idling brew pressure, which alludes to the pressure in the brew circuit (I.e.: the bottom half of the gauge).

I see what you were trying to say though - I think you refer to “brew pressure” because the machine is idling in brew priority mode. To me, regardless of the mode the machine is in, the top half of the gauge shows the service boiler pressure (aka steam pressure) and the bottom half the brew pressure (aka pump pressure).

Semantics hey… 😊👍

We are trying to help the OP here… It’s their first machine, and they have had it for a week, so maybe better keep things simple? ;-)

Once Mara X has finished the warm up cycle, there are two situations we are looking for on the manometer: Situation 1 is when the machine is ready to brew a shot of coffee. For this we expect the pressure to be ~0.5-0.8 bar (call it whatever you want); Situation 2 is when the pressure is ready for steaming after a “steam boost” (around 1.5 bar).

I think for someone with only one week’s experience (and potentially a defective machine) this is enough information, without going into the details of how exactly an HX works. But maybe I am wrong?

fl13dl1c3

@Doram @MediumRoastSteam
You’re right, I’m not familiar with the correct terminology. What I meant by “steam pressure” is the top portion of the manometer where it displays the word “Steam”, and it idles there around 0.5 - 0.875 after the machine has warmed up 30+minutes, prior to pulling a shot.

@Doram
Once Mara X has finished the warm up cycle, there are two situations we are looking for on the manometer: Situation 1 is when the machine is ready to brew a shot of coffee. For this we expect the pressure to be ₀.5-0.8 bar (call it whatever you want); Situation 2 is when the pressure is ready for steaming after a “steam boost” (around 1.5 bar).
My machine does not replicate situation 2. Here is a video of the machine pulling a shot, and watching the “steam boost” afterwards. It goes up to 1.25 bars

I didn’t get to do a timelapse video, but it’s the full 32 minutes of cold to warmup

You can see here that it maxes out at 2 bars of pressure while warming up.

@DavecUK I have actually had a great deal of trouble following the OP posts of the issue, because certain things are imprecise, leaving hanging questions..

is this all the time

is the user flushing the machine when they shouldn’t, because you flush HXs don’t you?

are they using the hot water tap and drawing a lot of water (because it’s there to be used, right

steamed, how much, to what temp (maintaining 1 bar is pretty good if i’m honest (is there a clue here?)

what country are they in (USA), is the programming slightly different?

30 minutes is in reality just properly warmed up and the machine may not react the same as 1 hour in because it’s still sinking heat.

was it purchased new/used, what’s the date of manufacture on the rating plate

Yes this is all the time in brew priority mode (X mode, coffee mode, whatever the correct terminology is)
I do not flush the machine prior to pulling a shot
I do not use the hot water tap
I am in the USA
The Lelit box says a manufactured date of 05/2021
I purchased this brand new, received on Monday 01/24/2022

The machine is on standby mode, however I’ve kept it on and ‘active’ during the testing by activating the lever for a second so that it does not go into standby mode. I will try to disable this later as well and test again after the machine has been on for a full 1 hour.

I will steam some milk later today and provide info on the amount, and time to temperature.

Doram

fl13dl1c3 I didn’t get to do a timelapse video, but it’s the full 32 minutes of cold to warmup

I have watched both your videos. Your machine doesn’t behave exactly the same as mine, but the differences are not extreme. In your ‘Steam pressure after shot’ video I can see you are getting a steam boost. It seems a little slow to kick in, and it’s only going up to ~1.25 bar while mine goes to about 1.5 bar.

In your warmup video your pressure peaks at about 2 bar, while mine goes to about 2.75 bar.

Are those differences intended and a result of different programming (my machine is from June 2020 and yours from May 2021)? I don’t know. My feeling is that this isn’t intended, but I can’t confirm that. If I were you, I would send your videos to Lelit and ask them.

MediumRoastSteam

fl13dl1c3 You’re right, I’m not familiar with the correct terminology. What I meant by “steam pressure”

I think your terminology is spot on. I’d say Steam Pressure too 👍

fl13dl1c3

Doram Are those differences intended and a result of different programming (my machine is from June 2020 and yours from May 2021)? I don’t know. My feeling is that this isn’t intended, but I can’t confirm that. If I were you, I would send your videos to Lelit and ask them.

It feels like it’s unintended too. I’ve watched workflow videos of newer machines (the one with the new black logo) and their steam pressure looks to be similar like yours post brew.

I’ve contacted my retailer for now with this info and will see what they say. If it doesn’t go anywhere I will include messaging Lelit as well.

Appreciate everyone’s help.

logjames

Doram

My US version from 10/2020 behaves the same as Doram’s. It heats up to around 2.75bar on initial warm-up and steam boosts to around 1.5bar after the first shot is pulled.

Doram

fl13dl1c3 It feels like it’s unintended too. I’ve watched workflow videos of newer machines (the one with the new black logo) and their steam pressure looks to be similar like yours post brew.

I’ve contacted my retailer for now with this info and will see what they say. If it doesn’t go anywhere I will include messaging Lelit as well.

I am pretty confident something isn’t right with your machine, just trying to be cautions when saying I don’t know for sure. :-).

We have seen others having similar issues, and as far as I remember most were solved with new temperature probes. The last report from a recent case that looks similar to yours is Lelit suggesting to replace the Gicar box (but this is after a temp probe replacement at the top of the boiler didn’t solve the issue). So this direction would be my guess for what is wrong with your machine.

fl13dl1c3

@MediumRoastSteam How long does it take for you to steam your milk? How much cold milk is in the jug, and which type of milk? Thanks.

I steamed 175ml of whole milk straight out of the refrigerator. It took me about 55 seconds to get it to a temp that was too hot to touch >1 second.
Does the performance of the steam work as expected?

MediumRoastSteam

fl13dl1c3 - hmm…. Feels a bit slow - but I have an Elizabeth. There was a thread on this forum where we shared some metrics… I’ll see if I find it. Or @Doram can just let us know how long it takes for him. 👌

Doram

MediumRoastSteam fl13dl1c3 - hmm…. Feels a bit slow - but I have an Elizabeth. There was a thread on this forum where we shared some metrics… I’ll see if I find it. Or @Doram can just let us know how long it takes for him. 👌

Don’t know if you remember, but we had the exact same question from someone who steamed 200 grams of milk, and I made a video of steaming 200g from the fridge for comparison. Pulled that video and it’s about one minute to get from fridge temp to ~60C.

So 55 seconds for 175ml isn’t completely off the board, which makes sense as the machine’s pressure is just slightly low (~1.25 after steam boost instead of 1.5).