Cuprajake

For me, rhe nurri paddles on the grouphead are a distinctively different technical solution than the push buttons on the console from the perspective of user feel and rhe fact that it is mechanical in nature as opposed to computer controlled.

Just like the solenoid three way valve for the pump machines, no burn steam wands, and dedicated single dosing grinders, such innovations make the work flow more elegant, easy, enjoyable, safer, convenient and consume less energy on tbe part of the user. I suspect that such solutions like that will become more common in future levers and become part of the expected industry standard that will be expected of any decent ptrmium lever machine. This is all good for the consumers because innovation in the lever market has been ossified for too long a time and some manufacturers are contentto offer old tech levers that have barely advanced since the 60s at high prices. Now things are finally changing for the better in a big way for the home marker with the advent of the leva x, vesuvius evo, nurri leva and vostok.

      chlorox rhe nurri paddles on the grouphead are a distinctively different technical solution than the push buttons on the console from the perspective of user feel and rhe fact that it is mechanical in nature as opposed to computer controlled

      How ‘mechanical’ is the end-shot paddle? I mean: does it actually open a valve with a mechanical link, or does it activate a solenoid through a microswitch? I’m just curious. Totally agree with you on the feeling - it’s (in my view) a bit like the difference between a CD and a memory stick. Both may contain exactly the same music, but I prefer the CD 🦖.

          CoyoteOldMan

          Sorry, by mechanical, I don’t mean to suggest the left paddle directly and physicallypulls open the valve. I don’t know how it actually operates within tbe grouphead to open the valve. What I meant to say can be more accurately said as it appears and feels as if it is a mechanical means of operation because tbe paddle is physically conndcted to an assembly or structure, moving the paddle mechanically moves that assembly and as the assembly moves physically forward, something which can be heard to click open. This is true regardless of whether the machine is powered on or not, the same click is produced. This is as opposed to just pressing a button on the console of the body of the machine which feels completely physically disconnected from qhatvthe grouphead is doing.

              chlorox I don’t mean to suggest the left paddle directly and physically pulls open the valve

              I didn’t think you meant it! I am just curious to understand how it’s done; I can think of how to do it with effectively a 3-way solenoid, but I don’t know if that’s how it’s done on the Nurri.

              And I totally understand what you mean re mechanical connection/disconnection - that’s why I was giving the analogy of a CD vs. a memory stick, rather than mentioning vinyl. Ultimately, it’s the same string of bits that is going through a very electronic DAC process; a vinyl record is a totally analogue process, from movement of the needle in the groove to a speaker diaphragm moving at the same frequency. But the CD still has a certain amount of ‘physical feeling’ - you need to take the disc in hand, put it into a reader and close a door. Not just click on an icon.

                  chlorox don’t know how it actually operates within tbe grouphead to open the valve

                  You can - if you can be bothered for the sake of scientific and accurate information:

                  • pull a shot as normal;
                  • when the shot is finishing, turn the machine off.
                  • try releasing the pressure in the group by means of activating the paddle as usual: if it works it’s purely mechanical. If it doesn’t, it’s likely to be via a micro switch and solenoid valve.
                  • let the group depressurise and, after that, turn the machine back on again.

                      MediumRoastSteam

                      That’s a good idea. Is there any risk of harming the machine? If not, I’m willing to try it as I’m curious as well how it worke. Does the fsct rhat it makes the same clicking sound when I pull thr paddle even when it is switched off show that it is mechanical?

                          chlorox - the clicking sound could just be the activating of the micro switch (e.g.: pressing any button with the equipment off). Without owning one it’s hard for me to assess for sure. But it’s my understanding there’s no harm to the machine as the group itself is fully mechanical and the extraction would just carry on as normal.

                          Even if I do that to my machine (which I did before, by mistake) - a lelit Elizabeth which has the group operated by solenoid valves and all sorts, all it did was to release the pressure from the group as the solenoid became de-energised (normally open).

                          But maybe someone with more knowledge than me could confirm.

                            chlorox I don’t think there is any risk - the ‘worst’ that happens is that the paddle is actually clicking a microswitch, in which case the pressure releases as it has done in all other LSM group machines for 75 years, through the puck. If there is a mechanical valve being operated, then the pressure gets released in exactly the same way whether the machine is on or off.

                            You just need to remove the cups from under the filter when you switch off, because the tail of the extraction (say under 7 bar) doesn’t taste very nice!

                            Whether you can be fussed to do it in the name of our curiosity, is a different question altogether!

                              chlorox It operates microswitch, that electrically activates a pressure release solenoid, connected to the hole the factory made to create the group. It’s usually sealed, but can be opened for a solenoid to be fitted.

                              The click you are hearing when the machine is off is probably the microswitch. If it’s in fact the solenoid, then be careful when poking around inside the machine as it might not be off, off…when you switch it off. You can tell by switching the machine off at the mains and see if you still get the same click.

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                                  DavecUK - chlorox - looks like there’s no need for the suggested test. Dave confirmed it’s a solenoid operated by micro switch. 👍

                                        Hi,

                                        The paddles actives micro switches just like when you use a lever on an e61 group

                                        I wasn’t really talking about the paddles more the modifications to the group to allow the pressure to be drained

                                        I presume it would be solenoid based like the minima groups, which was confirmed by the vid.

                                        Either way it’s still a button being pressed just one is with a fancy paddle the other your fingers.

                                        Like I say for me the jury is still out on the venting of a lever group.

                                        Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

                                          DavecUK

                                          Thanks for your post Dave.

                                          As I had said earlier, the clicking sound is made when the left paddle is pulled regardless of power being on or off.

                                          I just tried the experiment that mediumroaststeam suggested and switched off the machine while the lever was doing its extraction phase. It did nothing - the lever contained to rise slowly at the same rate and there was no release of the water in the groupheead into the drip tray and there was no clicking sound.

                                          Then when I pulled the left paddle while the machine remained switched off, the clicking sound was heard and the water from the grouphead was vented into the driptray. Thus the operation of the left paddle is not reliant on an electrical power supply at all.

                                          Based on what you explained and suggested, Dave, my experiment seems to show conclusively that the valve is not opened electrically at all unlike the case with a pump machine. Therefore is it reasonable to expect the that it is not in fact operated by an electrical circuit and that it is purely mechanical - which will make it totally different from kees van der westen’s version?

                                              DavecUK

                                              Is ut safe to be unplugging it entirely from the mains during the extraction phase?

                                                chlorox Unplug it…or switch off at the mains, unless that’s what you did (don’t switch off on the machine alone).

                                                I am sure, working from memory that it operates a microswitch….as I did review one and I am sure it just operates a microswitch.

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                                                    Cuprajake

                                                    (I posted an earlier reply which I accidentally overwrote and deleted when I replied to dave! So here it is again In hopefully more succinct form)

                                                    I have already posted above how the paddle on the grouphead offers a very different feeling interface than push button on console so regardless of the internal mechanism, it is different already from that perspective.

                                                    On whether the jury js still out, i note that ACS has ialready ncorporated a venting the grouphead control (by push button on the console, I assume) and backflushing requirement for the new vostok. Since acs is the only other maker of mschines that are in any way similar to the nurri, that shows that the industry is already making this feature available to consumers of this market segment as part of the package. Hopefully in time this would become the expected thing of all levers…

                                                    On its utility, let’s not forget that the solenoid valve isn’t a perfect solution even for pumps - it leaves a soggy puck and it doesn’t stop on the dot and still continues dripping (though to a lesser extent due to far less volume of water remaining in the grouphead or below the screen). And yet it has become universal in pump machines.

                                                    I was the owner of an izzo for a long time and I used to just let it drip or remove the cup and let it drip into the driptray. Due to Dave’s advice on this forum, I then adopted the plastic container swapping method. So I already had an established work around which I still even periodically use for the nurri. But I find that now that i have the nurri that has this ability, I use it most of the time due to its convenience rather than messing with a plastic container and swapping the cup with it. For me, I can testify that I now greatly prefer using the left paddle to swapping cups and I hope this becomes the accepted borm among levers as it is among pump machines.

                                                        MediumRoastSteam try releasing the pressure in the group by means of activating the paddle as usual: if it works it’s purely mechanical. If it doesn’t, it’s likely to be via a micro switch and solenoid valve.

                                                        It doesn’t.

                                                            Yeah I understand what your saying, I’m not fussed what you press

                                                            What I’m saying is I don’t like a feature that in my mind feels like a backwards step.

                                                            Something that adds work imo isn’t a good idea

                                                            Just because market dictates that it should have it doesn’t mean it should.

                                                            Acs are probably doing it because other levers in the market also do it.

                                                            It’s not a dig at nurri, people seem to get so defensive over their machines. It’s also a bad design on the kvdw,

                                                            All personal opinion of course.

                                                            Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

                                                              Think I blinked anc missed something @Cuprajake , what’s the feature that adds work and is a backward step?