chlorox I don’t think there is any risk - the ‘worst’ that happens is that the paddle is actually clicking a microswitch, in which case the pressure releases as it has done in all other LSM group machines for 75 years, through the puck. If there is a mechanical valve being operated, then the pressure gets released in exactly the same way whether the machine is on or off.

You just need to remove the cups from under the filter when you switch off, because the tail of the extraction (say under 7 bar) doesn’t taste very nice!

Whether you can be fussed to do it in the name of our curiosity, is a different question altogether!

    chlorox It operates microswitch, that electrically activates a pressure release solenoid, connected to the hole the factory made to create the group. It’s usually sealed, but can be opened for a solenoid to be fitted.

    The click you are hearing when the machine is off is probably the microswitch. If it’s in fact the solenoid, then be careful when poking around inside the machine as it might not be off, off…when you switch it off. You can tell by switching the machine off at the mains and see if you still get the same click.

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        DavecUK - chlorox - looks like there’s no need for the suggested test. Dave confirmed it’s a solenoid operated by micro switch. 👍

              Hi,

              The paddles actives micro switches just like when you use a lever on an e61 group

              I wasn’t really talking about the paddles more the modifications to the group to allow the pressure to be drained

              I presume it would be solenoid based like the minima groups, which was confirmed by the vid.

              Either way it’s still a button being pressed just one is with a fancy paddle the other your fingers.

              Like I say for me the jury is still out on the venting of a lever group.

              Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

                DavecUK

                Thanks for your post Dave.

                As I had said earlier, the clicking sound is made when the left paddle is pulled regardless of power being on or off.

                I just tried the experiment that mediumroaststeam suggested and switched off the machine while the lever was doing its extraction phase. It did nothing - the lever contained to rise slowly at the same rate and there was no release of the water in the groupheead into the drip tray and there was no clicking sound.

                Then when I pulled the left paddle while the machine remained switched off, the clicking sound was heard and the water from the grouphead was vented into the driptray. Thus the operation of the left paddle is not reliant on an electrical power supply at all.

                Based on what you explained and suggested, Dave, my experiment seems to show conclusively that the valve is not opened electrically at all unlike the case with a pump machine. Therefore is it reasonable to expect the that it is not in fact operated by an electrical circuit and that it is purely mechanical - which will make it totally different from kees van der westen’s version?

                    DavecUK

                    Is ut safe to be unplugging it entirely from the mains during the extraction phase?

                      chlorox Unplug it…or switch off at the mains, unless that’s what you did (don’t switch off on the machine alone).

                      I am sure, working from memory that it operates a microswitch….as I did review one and I am sure it just operates a microswitch.

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                          Cuprajake

                          (I posted an earlier reply which I accidentally overwrote and deleted when I replied to dave! So here it is again In hopefully more succinct form)

                          I have already posted above how the paddle on the grouphead offers a very different feeling interface than push button on console so regardless of the internal mechanism, it is different already from that perspective.

                          On whether the jury js still out, i note that ACS has ialready ncorporated a venting the grouphead control (by push button on the console, I assume) and backflushing requirement for the new vostok. Since acs is the only other maker of mschines that are in any way similar to the nurri, that shows that the industry is already making this feature available to consumers of this market segment as part of the package. Hopefully in time this would become the expected thing of all levers…

                          On its utility, let’s not forget that the solenoid valve isn’t a perfect solution even for pumps - it leaves a soggy puck and it doesn’t stop on the dot and still continues dripping (though to a lesser extent due to far less volume of water remaining in the grouphead or below the screen). And yet it has become universal in pump machines.

                          I was the owner of an izzo for a long time and I used to just let it drip or remove the cup and let it drip into the driptray. Due to Dave’s advice on this forum, I then adopted the plastic container swapping method. So I already had an established work around which I still even periodically use for the nurri. But I find that now that i have the nurri that has this ability, I use it most of the time due to its convenience rather than messing with a plastic container and swapping the cup with it. For me, I can testify that I now greatly prefer using the left paddle to swapping cups and I hope this becomes the accepted borm among levers as it is among pump machines.

                              MediumRoastSteam try releasing the pressure in the group by means of activating the paddle as usual: if it works it’s purely mechanical. If it doesn’t, it’s likely to be via a micro switch and solenoid valve.

                              It doesn’t.

                                  Yeah I understand what your saying, I’m not fussed what you press

                                  What I’m saying is I don’t like a feature that in my mind feels like a backwards step.

                                  Something that adds work imo isn’t a good idea

                                  Just because market dictates that it should have it doesn’t mean it should.

                                  Acs are probably doing it because other levers in the market also do it.

                                  It’s not a dig at nurri, people seem to get so defensive over their machines. It’s also a bad design on the kvdw,

                                  All personal opinion of course.

                                  Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

                                    Think I blinked anc missed something @Cuprajake , what’s the feature that adds work and is a backward step?

                                    I assume it is not necessary to cut the shot using the new features, or is it?

                                    At the same time, I think the lever manufacturers are bringing the common elements that are available in the non-lever space. It may probably get more people to use the lever segment, who may not feel comfortable using the lever for one reason or another otherwise.

                                    Would using the new feature to cut the shot mean the users will have to carry out a regular (chemical) back flush? Does it also require lubing the group or valve, after that back flush?

                                      @tompoland the group venting feature that a few manufactures are using

                                      LMSC im not sure, i know kees tell you do back flush on there slimjim so not sure,

                                      Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

                                          Cuprajake

                                          Since you are suggesting that i am being defensive, i will explain thar one of the reasons I have posted so much to explain the new features of the nurri is because even before i bought the nurri, I have perceived precisely what appears to be that sort of defensiveness (sometimes prefaced with a denial of being defensive!) among some owners of the vesuvius evo on this forum towards the nurri as viewed in the comments they make about it. How much of the fears over soggy pucks and backflushing can be attributed to a subconscious form of being threatened by a new machine? (There I was thinking that the point of making coffee was to make coffee and not to get a dry puck)….There was even one case where one poster asked another poster to justify why he bought a nurri in favour of a vesuvius evo, and proceeded to respond to those reasons!

                                          The funny thing is that the beauty of adding this capability to a lever is that you don’t have to vent the grouphead to end the shot at all if you don’t want to, or you can do it only part of the time if you don’t want to, or you can do it all the time if you want to.

                                          In other words, having it is better than not having it because you have the power. Whereas in the case of a lever without that capability, you don’t have that choice.

                                          As for now much work is caused, I would have thought that having a more elegant, more energy efficient (pulling a paddle with one finger vs switching cup and container) and less messy way of cutting the shot when you use it several times a day is well worth the need to backflush it every few weeks but ymmv…

                                          Lastly as for bad design how can it be bad design for it to appear in every pump machine. I’m sure it is possible to manufacture pump machines that do not automatically open the solenoid valve when the pump is switched off to relieve the pressure so there’s nothing inevitable about it…

                                            LMSC

                                            No - unlike with a pump machine, it is not necessary to use that feature if you don’t want to. You can also let it drip out like a traditional lever or use Dave’s tupperware technique.

                                            • LMSC replied to this.

                                                chlorox Thx! As I said, it gives the user a choice, besides attracting potential new users who may be sitting on the fence. I know it is up to the user if they want to cut the shot using the new feature.

                                                Innovations are good; the comments posted by the Evo owners / users should not be viewed as defensive at all. This is precisely the problem we all face - I always wonder why the comments posted by one segment of the machine owners to another are not viewed in the right spirit?

                                                IMHO, it is normal if the members ask/discuss the value/utility or pros or cons of one over the other. The comments / discussion on the new feature, how the water would drain after the shot is cut, back flushing, lubricating, dry/soggy puck are not the by-products of a fear over the arrival of a new machine. I would consider them as genuine questions as those members have no view of how these are addressed. 🤷‍♂️

                                                Example, my doubt was more on the back flush - water, or chemical and/or lubricating ? If lubricating, what are we? Is it fair if I ask. I do think it is. 😊

                                                I know, we have seen a lot of Evo bashing in the past when the machine was not in the production stage and the comments were getting too personal elsewhere. It is all about freely and openly discussing the concept, agreeing to disagree and respecting each other as a person!

                                                    LMSC

                                                    You are right - we should give each other the benefit of the doubt. It is just that I have seen a lot of this kind of comments and after a while, it is difficult not to feel like people may feel a little defensive over the new upstart machine.

                                                    I think that the vesuvius evo faced similar comments from owners of a certain other earlier machine when it first came out over whether the new featuresof the evo were needed or not or worked well or not, and it is ironic to me that the same cycle seems to be repeating with the latest machine to appear that is seen as the new competition.

                                                    For me, I think all innovation is good. I would want to see the home lever market flourish more and that this burgeoning bloom continies to bear fruit and a continuing harvest of future better and better machines - after all, how can we upgrade if this doesn’t happen? 😀

                                                    For example I like the timer on the vesuvius evo and I particularly like the auto light on the new vostok and wish my nurri had it. Too few home machines have lights to illuminate the cup during rhe shot and I think every machine and grinder should have them or at leas tthe option to turn those lights on if desired.

                                                    I am glad to answer any question if I can about the machine so ask away…there are some I simply don’t know though the answer of so I will defer to those who are technically minded.