Hi,

The paddles actives micro switches just like when you use a lever on an e61 group

I wasn’t really talking about the paddles more the modifications to the group to allow the pressure to be drained

I presume it would be solenoid based like the minima groups, which was confirmed by the vid.

Either way it’s still a button being pressed just one is with a fancy paddle the other your fingers.

Like I say for me the jury is still out on the venting of a lever group.

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    DavecUK

    Thanks for your post Dave.

    As I had said earlier, the clicking sound is made when the left paddle is pulled regardless of power being on or off.

    I just tried the experiment that mediumroaststeam suggested and switched off the machine while the lever was doing its extraction phase. It did nothing - the lever contained to rise slowly at the same rate and there was no release of the water in the groupheead into the drip tray and there was no clicking sound.

    Then when I pulled the left paddle while the machine remained switched off, the clicking sound was heard and the water from the grouphead was vented into the driptray. Thus the operation of the left paddle is not reliant on an electrical power supply at all.

    Based on what you explained and suggested, Dave, my experiment seems to show conclusively that the valve is not opened electrically at all unlike the case with a pump machine. Therefore is it reasonable to expect the that it is not in fact operated by an electrical circuit and that it is purely mechanical - which will make it totally different from kees van der westen’s version?

        DavecUK

        Is ut safe to be unplugging it entirely from the mains during the extraction phase?

          chlorox Unplug it…or switch off at the mains, unless that’s what you did (don’t switch off on the machine alone).

          I am sure, working from memory that it operates a microswitch….as I did review one and I am sure it just operates a microswitch.

          Contact me

              Cuprajake

              (I posted an earlier reply which I accidentally overwrote and deleted when I replied to dave! So here it is again In hopefully more succinct form)

              I have already posted above how the paddle on the grouphead offers a very different feeling interface than push button on console so regardless of the internal mechanism, it is different already from that perspective.

              On whether the jury js still out, i note that ACS has ialready ncorporated a venting the grouphead control (by push button on the console, I assume) and backflushing requirement for the new vostok. Since acs is the only other maker of mschines that are in any way similar to the nurri, that shows that the industry is already making this feature available to consumers of this market segment as part of the package. Hopefully in time this would become the expected thing of all levers…

              On its utility, let’s not forget that the solenoid valve isn’t a perfect solution even for pumps - it leaves a soggy puck and it doesn’t stop on the dot and still continues dripping (though to a lesser extent due to far less volume of water remaining in the grouphead or below the screen). And yet it has become universal in pump machines.

              I was the owner of an izzo for a long time and I used to just let it drip or remove the cup and let it drip into the driptray. Due to Dave’s advice on this forum, I then adopted the plastic container swapping method. So I already had an established work around which I still even periodically use for the nurri. But I find that now that i have the nurri that has this ability, I use it most of the time due to its convenience rather than messing with a plastic container and swapping the cup with it. For me, I can testify that I now greatly prefer using the left paddle to swapping cups and I hope this becomes the accepted borm among levers as it is among pump machines.

                  MediumRoastSteam try releasing the pressure in the group by means of activating the paddle as usual: if it works it’s purely mechanical. If it doesn’t, it’s likely to be via a micro switch and solenoid valve.

                  It doesn’t.

                      Yeah I understand what your saying, I’m not fussed what you press

                      What I’m saying is I don’t like a feature that in my mind feels like a backwards step.

                      Something that adds work imo isn’t a good idea

                      Just because market dictates that it should have it doesn’t mean it should.

                      Acs are probably doing it because other levers in the market also do it.

                      It’s not a dig at nurri, people seem to get so defensive over their machines. It’s also a bad design on the kvdw,

                      All personal opinion of course.

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                        Think I blinked anc missed something @Cuprajake , what’s the feature that adds work and is a backward step?

                        I assume it is not necessary to cut the shot using the new features, or is it?

                        At the same time, I think the lever manufacturers are bringing the common elements that are available in the non-lever space. It may probably get more people to use the lever segment, who may not feel comfortable using the lever for one reason or another otherwise.

                        Would using the new feature to cut the shot mean the users will have to carry out a regular (chemical) back flush? Does it also require lubing the group or valve, after that back flush?

                          @tompoland the group venting feature that a few manufactures are using

                          LMSC im not sure, i know kees tell you do back flush on there slimjim so not sure,

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                              Cuprajake

                              Since you are suggesting that i am being defensive, i will explain thar one of the reasons I have posted so much to explain the new features of the nurri is because even before i bought the nurri, I have perceived precisely what appears to be that sort of defensiveness (sometimes prefaced with a denial of being defensive!) among some owners of the vesuvius evo on this forum towards the nurri as viewed in the comments they make about it. How much of the fears over soggy pucks and backflushing can be attributed to a subconscious form of being threatened by a new machine? (There I was thinking that the point of making coffee was to make coffee and not to get a dry puck)….There was even one case where one poster asked another poster to justify why he bought a nurri in favour of a vesuvius evo, and proceeded to respond to those reasons!

                              The funny thing is that the beauty of adding this capability to a lever is that you don’t have to vent the grouphead to end the shot at all if you don’t want to, or you can do it only part of the time if you don’t want to, or you can do it all the time if you want to.

                              In other words, having it is better than not having it because you have the power. Whereas in the case of a lever without that capability, you don’t have that choice.

                              As for now much work is caused, I would have thought that having a more elegant, more energy efficient (pulling a paddle with one finger vs switching cup and container) and less messy way of cutting the shot when you use it several times a day is well worth the need to backflush it every few weeks but ymmv…

                              Lastly as for bad design how can it be bad design for it to appear in every pump machine. I’m sure it is possible to manufacture pump machines that do not automatically open the solenoid valve when the pump is switched off to relieve the pressure so there’s nothing inevitable about it…

                                LMSC

                                No - unlike with a pump machine, it is not necessary to use that feature if you don’t want to. You can also let it drip out like a traditional lever or use Dave’s tupperware technique.

                                • LMSC replied to this.

                                    chlorox Thx! As I said, it gives the user a choice, besides attracting potential new users who may be sitting on the fence. I know it is up to the user if they want to cut the shot using the new feature.

                                    Innovations are good; the comments posted by the Evo owners / users should not be viewed as defensive at all. This is precisely the problem we all face - I always wonder why the comments posted by one segment of the machine owners to another are not viewed in the right spirit?

                                    IMHO, it is normal if the members ask/discuss the value/utility or pros or cons of one over the other. The comments / discussion on the new feature, how the water would drain after the shot is cut, back flushing, lubricating, dry/soggy puck are not the by-products of a fear over the arrival of a new machine. I would consider them as genuine questions as those members have no view of how these are addressed. 🤷‍♂️

                                    Example, my doubt was more on the back flush - water, or chemical and/or lubricating ? If lubricating, what are we? Is it fair if I ask. I do think it is. 😊

                                    I know, we have seen a lot of Evo bashing in the past when the machine was not in the production stage and the comments were getting too personal elsewhere. It is all about freely and openly discussing the concept, agreeing to disagree and respecting each other as a person!

                                        LMSC

                                        You are right - we should give each other the benefit of the doubt. It is just that I have seen a lot of this kind of comments and after a while, it is difficult not to feel like people may feel a little defensive over the new upstart machine.

                                        I think that the vesuvius evo faced similar comments from owners of a certain other earlier machine when it first came out over whether the new featuresof the evo were needed or not or worked well or not, and it is ironic to me that the same cycle seems to be repeating with the latest machine to appear that is seen as the new competition.

                                        For me, I think all innovation is good. I would want to see the home lever market flourish more and that this burgeoning bloom continies to bear fruit and a continuing harvest of future better and better machines - after all, how can we upgrade if this doesn’t happen? 😀

                                        For example I like the timer on the vesuvius evo and I particularly like the auto light on the new vostok and wish my nurri had it. Too few home machines have lights to illuminate the cup during rhe shot and I think every machine and grinder should have them or at leas tthe option to turn those lights on if desired.

                                        I am glad to answer any question if I can about the machine so ask away…there are some I simply don’t know though the answer of so I will defer to those who are technically minded.

                                          chlorox Sorry I’m not comfortable to suddenly pull out the plug in the middle of operation of the machine - I’m still too precious over my machine to hazard that!

                                          Ha! No worries. I completely understand.

                                          PS: I wasn’t expecting you did that! The rationale behind would be to switch machine off as you did, and then unplug it.

                                          It’s strange however how the microswitch got activated even though the machine wasn’t on in your case, but for Tom, it was the opposite.

                                              on a pump machine thats just by design, soon as pressure releases. so the need to back flush

                                              this is an added feature,

                                              the soupy pucks add to cleaning thats all im saying, this goes for any machine like that.

                                              when i first started with my londinium levers the moving the cup and dry knock out pucks were great, as was the cleaning side, when i moved back to the bianca wet pucks became the norm as did the need for back flush, and greasing, its just an added thing thats all.

                                              for me personally its not a feature id use even if fitted, it probably will become the norm, im hoping im not in the market now for another 10yrs.

                                              this is the kees instructions :

                                              Back flush group Back flushing cleans the group and conduits from coffee residue which influences the taste of the extraction since fresh (hot) water is transported to the coffee bed through these parts. It is advised to back flush the groups at least once a day and more often when the machine is intensively used. Described next is the back flush procedure for an individual group.

                                              Procedure 1. Remove the filter holder, flush the group briefly (with flush-handle).

                                              2. Clean the group screen and group seal with the plastic group brush.

                                              3. Pry the filter basket (e.g. with the group screen extractor) from the filter holder (see Figure 21) and replace it with a blind filter.

                                              4. Scoop 1 teaspoon of coffee dissolving powder in the blind filter and lock the filter holder in the group.

                                              5. Pull the brew-lever into locking position, unlock when pressure no longer rises (appr. 3.5 bar): pressure will quickly rise to appr. 9 bar.

                                              6. Keep away from the reach of the brew-lever, then relief pressure (with handle); the brew-lever will return to resting position very quickly, do not remove the filter holder.

                                              7. Repeat steps 5 and 6 eight times (pressurise, then de-pressurise).

                                              8. Remove the filter holder from the group, clean the blind filter by flushing it under the tap, flush the group for approximately 5 seconds to remove possible powder from the group screen. Now do it again without adding cleaning powder to remove all powder from the group:

                                              9. Lock filter holder in group, pull the brew-lever into locking position, unlock when pressure no longer rises (appr. 3.5 bar): pressure will quickly rise to appr. 9 bar. Keep away from the reach of the brew-lever, then relief pressure (with handle); the brew-lever will return to resting position quickly. Remove filter holder and empty in drip-tray, remount filter-holder.

                                              10. Repeat step 9 four times.

                                              11. Pry the blind filter from the filter holder and replace the filter basket.

                                              Clean program Maximum water-pressure during the clean program will be incoming pressure and thus not as high as when you perform the back-flush manually and may thus not be as effective. The groups will simultaneously pressurise for 15 seconds (with pump active when installed) 8 times in a row with a pause of 9 seconds in between. The LEDs on the flush/relief unit will flash during the cleaning program, the digit displays continue to show the temperature. Procedure

                                              1. Remove the filter holders, flush all groups (with handle).

                                              2. Clean the group screen and group seal with the plastic group brush.

                                              3. Pry the filter baskets (e.g. with the group screen extractor) from the filter holders (see Figure 21) and replace them with blind filters.

                                              4. Scoop 1 teaspoon of coffee dissolving powder in each blind filter and lock the filter holders in the groups.

                                              5. On the touch screen, start the cleaning program (the LEDs on the units start to flash).

                                              6. One-by-one pull the brew-levers into locking position (the LEDs remain flashing). While 7 (and 10) is in progress, clean the filter baskets.

                                              7. After 8 pressurising cycles the LEDs stop flashing, the program has ended. 8. Unlock the levers, relief pressure (with handles).

                                              9. Unlock the portafilters and clean them under running water, replace in groups.

                                              10. Start the cleaning program without cleaning powder again to remove all cleaning powder from the groups.

                                              11. Pull levers into locking position, wait until the LEDs stop flashing (the program has ended). 12. Unlock levers and return to resting position (relief). 13. Replace blind-filters with filter baskets.

                                              sorry for the derail lol

                                              fwiw i like the design of the nurri i think its a great looking machine, i did look at them but decided it was too big for my counter, this was bianca time

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