Cuprajake

I think the only situation where one could be in danger for any lever is if one pulls down the lever of any machine out there on an empty portafilter - the one big no no of spring lever practice. Unless the lever happens to be the slim Jim idiocompresso, a La San Marco lever machine equipped with their patented CLASS system, or the LM LEVA X, releasing the lever in those circs will result in rhe lever violently flying upwards with all the force of rhe springs. But this is true of any other spring lever in the world…

Using the paddles as part of one’s daily practice should however make that accident more unlikely because that means that there is no need to ever touch rhe lever handle let alone pull it down unless one has filled the portafiltrr with coffee grounds and locked it in the grouphead. I believe that was part of Antonio’s original purpose for coming out with the paddles.

      Cuprajake if there are grounds in the basket and the lever is pulled down and the left paddle is activated, all that is going to happen is that the water that is under pressure will end up in the drip tray.

      The only danger that I can see, is the same as any other sprung lever which is the lever being released with no grinds in the basket and whammo, broken jaw,

      Even allowing for your people who wash toasters in buckets, I can’t see how they could have an accident by venting the group head, with or without coffee grinds.

      Unless I am missing something…

        Yeah I know just thinking out loud about the feature not the machine,

        As its something I can see coming to more modern levers as they progress

        Like was say now on the vostok, prob work it’s way to the Evo too,

        Easiest way to check what it does is to choke the lever and press the paddle , any volunteers 🤣

        I think we all presume the same thing.

        I’ve only let go of a lever once in my life on the londinuim, I does make you think haha

        Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

          It seems to me that the best solution to make levers safe is what LSM did, basically a one-way damper which limits the speed at which the lever can move upwards. This way, whenever pressure is drops quickly in the brew chamber, voluntarily or accidentally, nothing serious happens. I presume LSM has a patent on this idea unfortunately, as implementing it can be done fairly easily using various approaches (yes, this might change the aesthetics slightly and add a few parts, but not that much)

            Cuprajake asiest way to check what it does is to choke the lever and press the paddle , any volunteers 🤣

            I already answered this in post 111.

            Viernes The release paddle was created to end the shot, the possibility to backflush a lever and also vent pressure in case of choking and avoid portafilter sneezing which splashes hot water.

            Lever goes back smoothly to the start position.

                @Cuprajake

                As viernes said, releasing pressure if the machine is choked is precisely one of the reasons why the left paddle solution was invented by nurri.

                  Eiffel

                  Wouldn’t the LSM CLASS patented damping system make it impossible to ‘force’ the lever to increase pressure by pushing on the lever handle to speed its ascent?

                  Frankly I am not sure why there seems so much anxiety over the lever handle whipping up. The only way this will happen is if the lever is pulled down on an empty portafilter or no portafilter and then released. The best way to prevent that from happening is to never even touch or pull down on the lever to the cocked position when there is no portafilter loaded or there is nothing in that portafilter. In the past when I owned an izzo the only time when I had to break that rule was when I needed to repeatedly flush the grouphead to raise temperature but I was always conscious of the danger the lever posed because it took real effort to keep pulling it down and then retarding its progress upwards when I flushed it. I sure do not miss that exercise routine nowadays with the nurri whe i can just set the temp I want by using the pid!

                  • LMSC replied to this.

                      chlorox I know 🤦😃

                      Giphy - homer simpson spinning GIF

                      Think we’re mixing the conversation, I understand the system, and is use

                      But I’ve not seen anyone purpose choke a nurri/Vostok and then vent.

                      As @MediumRoastSteam said we’re looking at the mechanism of the leva returning

                      As easy you are around the machine doesn’t mean everyone would be, and imagine in a commercial settings where you are mid shot and someone reaches for a cup of the top warmer and hits the paddle, as far fetched as that seems, that’s why they call them accidents.

                      Any way let’s move one

                      Can we have some more vids please.

                      Giphy - star trek data GIF by HULU

                      Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

                          I don’t know how the LSM CLASS system works, but one could imagine a system similar to the dampers on a car. With these, small amplitude movements can happen at fairly high frequencies/fast, but compressing or releasing fully the shocks takes longer due to the dampening effect of oil going through narrow passages and/or valves.

                          It seems to me that the main danger with spring levers coffee machines is that the lever can swing back very quickly if there is nothing to slow it down, such as a coffee puck. Reducing the maximum release rate would reduce the risk of injuries. I would still make for a messy scene with hot water, coffee grounds or even potentially broken cups in some situations

                            Cuprajake

                            In all the years I have used levers I have only choked my machine once from my recollection. Not yet with the nurri even at nearly max fineness setting on my grinder. So not so easy for me anyway to find myself in that situation!

                            In any event, there is no need to actually do that in order to be assured that the lever won’t smack you - because there isn’t any difference between that situation and when we end a shot with the paddle. On fact there would be more water left in the grouphead if the paddle is accidentally triggered at the start of the shot and so the speed of the lever going up should be even slower…

                              Eiffel

                              U r probably right - it may be some kind of hydraulic based system.

                              I reckon the real need for such a system is in the busy cafe where the baristas may not be as experienced on levers or not fully trained and so the shop owner needs to make sure that a moments inattention does not cost them a damaged jaw and/or broken teeth and his shop a lawsuit! But for the home owner of a spring lever who uses his or her machine every day, I think muscle memory and good work habits should make that highly unlikely. Still, it’s a good reminder for all of us lever users to always be mindful around the uppercut machine! :)

                                Yeah but it’s good to have the info there for people to see/read for any future buyers

                                That’s why I do loads of vids because when I was looking for info on the SSP burrs it was a very closed shop, and very little info about them at the time.

                                Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

                                tompoland t I am hoping that it can be manually triggered because I like the way the Nurri paddle allows me to choose when to end the shot, like on the Slim Jim.

                                The Vostock can be manually triggered via the menu selection button beside the display (small steel button). The lever comes up fairly slowly when manually triggered, certainly not fast enough to cause damage. The Nurri would be the same.

                                The one thing to watch out for…if the lever is pulled down and while the group is filling the pressure release is activated, then the lever will come up extremely rapidly. It would be impossible to do accidentally on the Vostok. On the Nurri it’s unlikely as well, unless something catches in the left hand paddle, or falls and in some way activates it. So care should be taken to keep that area clear.

                                I would also recommend on the Nurri, if the microswitch activation part goes out of alignment at all, you get it immediately fixed so that this can’t happen due to that.

                                Contact me

                                    chlorox The only way this will happen is if the lever is pulled down on an empty portafilter or no portafilter and then released. The best way to prevent that from happening is to never even touch or pull down on the lever to the cocked position

                                    What are the chances some one pulls the lever down ? Some one accidentally pulling the lever is lower than releasing the lever. Accidents can happen. Perhaps, locking the lever as a safety feature both ways may be the way forward.

                                    My first shot with the Evo chocked the lever. I left it to resolve itself. It did as the pressure dripped its’ way through after about 4:30-5:00 mins.

                                        LMSC

                                        I can only think of the “big stupid brother in law”, most folks have one.
                                        You know the type, laughing at your funny coffee machine and lampooning you making a shot by pulling down on the lever, then letting it go while grinning.
                                        Might be worth it actually.

                                            Amberale

                                            I must be fortunwte because no visitor includijg my brother in law has ever even touched my coffee machine or ever even showed any interest in it back when I owned an izzo despite it being a huge lump of stainless steel on my kitchen counter! :)

                                              LMSC

                                              The effort it takes to pull the lever down may make that of a lower probability than that - it takes someone who really wants to do it in order for it to happen…

                                                  chlorox Usually takes about 2 hours on an exhibition day for someone to pull the lever down and then let go, or lock it down then not control it’s rise back….this is on display machines. Stupidity knows no bounds. I may well suggest a locking mechanism on display machines, so the lever can’t be moved.

                                                  Or even make a replica rubber lever 😁

                                                  Contact me

                                                      DavecUK

                                                      The left paddle is designed in such a way that makes it a movement that requires a conscious decision to accomplish. It requires more force than a falling cup to pull the left paddle and the weight of the cup isnt enough to do that. Also u need a horizontal force not a downward force which is what a falling cup would exert typically anyway. It also cannot be a momentary force - you have to sustain a higher force than that across a certain horizontal range by continuously pulling the left paddle towards yourself.

                                                      I tried knocking the paddle in a downward facing force or a force directed diagonally downwards. The switch didn’t even move. Only a purely horizontal directed force will move the paddle.

                                                      Furthermore the pump fills the grouphead quickly, so that would mean almost immediately after the user releases the lever he has to engage the left paddle “accidentally” in order to cause insufficient water to be in the grouohead. But in doing so, the user will more likely also need to move out of line with the lever arm to the left of the group - which puts his chin out of the danger zone.

                                                      As for the microswitch alignment part, if it goes out if alignment the left paddle wont even open the valve at all. It is made so that it needs to pull a certain distance before activating the microswitch. That cannot somehow change by itself- unless it is deliberately sabotaged!

                                                      Therefore what you suggested is in fact as unlikely to happen as “accidentally” triggering the venting of the grouphead on the vostok by pressing the touch screen wrongly…I use the parentheses because both situations are also to me similarly unlikely to happen and would only be practically possible if one were to intentionally do so…

                                                          DavecUK

                                                          Perhaps people behave in a more uninhibited fashion in an exhibition area than those who visit the residence of a friend or relative. Or others have.had less well behaved or more inebriated guests and visitors! :)