DavecUK indeed, that’s what I was suggesting; that I won’t be able to tell the difference. Maybe between the 63mm and 83mm … maybe. But it would have to be a blind test.

    I’ve had the Helor 106 for a year or so now and it’s a great solid grinder. Much prefer the flavour profile for filter to that of the Niche but that could be down to burr rpm not size. Niche at 330 v 20 on the Helor. Tastes a cleaner cup. Not as much difference compared to the Comandante tbh.

    I’m just carrying out the mod to use 83mm conical in the Helor. These are the Mazzer burrs not the Italmill ones in the Malwani. I’ve done a revised design compare to the one I saw on YouTube as his files only have 9 magnets, mine has 12 on the cup, plus did not like how the outer burr attaches. I’ve inserted an embedded hex nut in the print so it’s solid and secure. Version 2 will use an embedded square nut as this will resist twisting even more although the hex shows no sign of an issue.

    Should be interesting to taste 83mm conical running at really low rpms - I know the marketing blurb for the Weber Key sells it lower rpm as a positive - we’ll see

    Not quite adding to the comparisons, but… any recommendations for a manual grinder that can do Turkish and espresso (no worries about filter)?

    On the one hand, I’m tempted to spend £50 on a Sözen, and use that for my Turkish addiction; on the other, having a nice hand grinder to do one-off/true single dose with different beans will allow us to use the Ceado more ‘as it is meant to be used’ and dial it in precisely for the “house espresso”. Suddenly £300 for an Omega/Kinu/Comandante aren’t as preposterous…

    • MWJB replied to this.

      CoyoteOldMan Sozen certainly do fine Turkish grind, but be aware they’re pretty agricultural, a fair bit of variation from one to another in terms of finish. Setting can drift with use too. Plus the brass smell can be hard for some to get past.

      What about a Feldgrind/Aergrind? (Might take a bit longer to grind).

          MWJB Will add the Feldgrind/Aergrind to the list of possibilities! Thank you for the suggestion, and for the info on Sözen; I suppose one largely gets what one pays for…

              A couple of photos showing the mod to change the Helor 106 to 83mm Mazzer burrs. Totally reversible in a couple of minutes. Takes 45 seconds to dial in 21g for a Decent lever profile which needs a fine grind. Similar effort to the 71mm burrs. I think I grind at around 120 rpm which means the burrs are grinding at 30 rpm. Does increase the weight to 6g short of 2 kg but the body is narrower than say a Commandante so is comfortable to hold whilst grinding. Same burr set as the Weber Key, without the coating, I’m a 2.0 on the dial for espresso. My first attempt was at 1.1 - 90 seconds and not even a drip out and took an age to grind, way too fine. Compare to a Pharos it’s a joy to turn.

              Looking forward to trying for pourover now as will be interesting to see any flavour difference between my Niche or Compak E10

                CoyoteOldMan

                Don’t forget the Aerspeed. It has more aggressive burrs than the Aergrind so takes less time to grind, you can really feel it chomping through the beans. The trade off is that it has less adjustment for espresso but is still capable. I bought mine as I was fed up with the time taken to grind for the Aeroperess when camping with a Rhinowares, I chose it over the Aergrind and I’m still happy with that choice.

                  6 days later

                  Enea_… long story short, yes. I’ve owned mine for at least 6 months now (Time passes very quickly, can’t be more precise)

                  I use it about 3 times a day, 2 weeks out of 3 working on a remote site with my Flair. It is just so much better for espresso than my Feld2 in precision and general handling. The crank arm makes the 48mm burrs less of a challenge than I’d expected….not saying it’s that easy for lighter roasts but well manageable.

                  I haven’t noticed the same issue about adjustment after cleaning, just appreciate the repeatability and build qualify, it’s designed and built by engineers and I feel it shows.

                  Feld2 and Aergrind get the brewing gigs these days.

                    Quick (non-)update. Got an unexpected small job paying just enough to cover an Omega. So, guess what is awaiting for me with a friend in Italy? (Cheaper and easier to pay for 22% Italian VAT and courier than risking shipping to the UK with random duties applied…)

                      DavecUK Will do a mini-review once the grinder is in the UK in early August - we will be using it as a ‘travel grinder’ during our vacation too (but not for espresso - moka and Turkish only; I’m not travelling with the Leva!)

                        a month later

                        Stevebee How are the 83mm compared to the original 71mm Steve?

                        I did my first back to back comparisons last weekend (83mm Mazzer Robur in the Malwani versus 71mm Mazzer Robur in the Helor) and to me they tasted so similar that I’m certain that I would not be able to pick the difference in a blind taste test.

                          I never used it much recently with the 71mm burrs as I tend to use the 98 flats in the Ultra for espresso. Used it more recently with the 83mm but not back to back like you so difficult to say. Do prefer it to the Niche as it seems to produce a clearer cup at filter grind. Might be grind speed rather than burr size tbh but haven’t done enough testing

                            Good read on all the discussion here. I own a Jx Pro and this is my first espresso related. I am thinking about upgrade. I have zero experience in electric grinder but I love the simplicity of Jx Pro in term of its low retention and low maintenance and ease of cleaning. So my next upgrade may likely be a hand grind. It seems that the Omega will not offer very significant improvement in cup compared to the JX Pro.

                            Has any of you looked at the HG-1 Prime? I just heard about this grinder. I was surprised that it costs “only” a portion of the HG-2 with comparable spec. And it seems the HG-1 and HG-2 are in the elite league of hand grinder. Would love to hear your thought on it. Thanks.

                              Stevebee the extra clarity (over the Niche) is more likely due to burr geometry than RPM. Niche has Mazzer Kony and the other burrs are both Mazzer Robur.

                                Knluk I looked at the HG1 and 2 but ended up going with a Malwani Livi fitted with Mazzer Robur (same as Key grinders). I like the Livi’s three gears and the style.

                                Have to say I really like the look of the Prime but it came out after I ordered the Livi. I suspect you will notice a difference if you upgrade. But other than the reduced grind time the difference won’t be huge but IMHO still very worthwhile.

                                    tompoland the Liri is new to me but it does look nice. Great choice. I just checked the price and the HG-1 Prime is cheaper than the Liri but I didn’t include shipping and tax.

                                    My main objective is the quality in cup as I don’t mind the grinding time and muscle effort with the JX Pro (yet?).

                                        I been using the HG-1 Prime for a few months now. Previously owned DF64 w/ MP burrs and a Niche zero. What questions about the prime do you have?

                                          Gtbarringer work flow would be interesting and also any difference you notice in the cup compared to whatever grinders you were using preciously. Your impression of quality too, although I imagine it is top notch. Thanks!

                                            Knluk if you consider the Livi please bear in mind they come with Italmill burrs and I swapped them out for Mazzer Robur burrs so that could add a few bob more to your purchase. It’s a very easy swap to do at home though.