Exactly. It would be a perfect machine for me. I could even pair it with an nano foamer or whatever. No one drinks coffee in my house but me, and guests can have coffee from a Moka pot, for example.

But for $1,500 or whatever it is… I’ll keep my Elizabeth thanks!

I do like the idea of being able to just pour water from a kettle into the group. This would mean I could just use tap water or from a Brita Filter, but not need to go thought lengths to make my own water so it’s boiler safe.

Temperature stability might be a problem though, as shown.

Think I’m batting 4 wins and 2 losses with KS now. Assuming the xBloom is delivered, which seems likely.

One loss was for the x-bar espresso device. $200 maybe? Reviews by influencers were positive but then they simply disappeared and all we got was radio silence. That one appeared to stumble in going from prototype to production. Covid probably did not help.

The second was due to me being dumb and basing my pledge on images rather than seeing a video of a working prototype. Not coffee related. $180 maybe. Turned out that one was a blatant rip off.

The latter type of loss is my concern with crowd sourcing.

The goal is reached, pledges collected and then presumably the money, minus KS fees, is deposited into the private bank account of the project owner.

In the case of a proven manufacturer with many shareholders and board governance, that’s a safer bet. Although such companies normally raise capital privately.

But where we have one individual who relatively quickly finds $5 million (?) dollars in his bank account, I have to confess to having concerns.

In the case of Meticulous, concern #1 is the Chess KS project that raised $2 million (?) and years later has not been delivered.

Concern #2 is the temptation to take the money and simply fudge a failure by stretching out excuses over a few years while living the high life. I’m not aware of any federal requirement for transparency or accountability with KS projects. And even if there was, the power to prosecute based on one country’s laws weakens considerably once the money and the owner relocate to another country.

But assuming the above two concerns are not an issue i.e. the project owners are ethical people, concern #3 is putting $5 million (?) into the hands of someone who is not experienced in bringing thousands of machines to market from a prototype that is clearly not yet fully sorted.

The extraordinay success of the Timemore and Meticulous KS projects have magnified what were minor concerns before, to what are now major concerns, as least in my mind.

It was different when the individual pledge amounts and the total amounts raised were smaller. I may not be concerned about a firecracker going off on my front doorstep, but I would be very concerned about a bomb going off.

The KS game has changed.

Re Kickstarter, I saw a post today saying timemore will not be shipping to some countries because of the cost. But they are not going to release this list till the deadline has passed ..not sure if true.

I just don’t like a platform were you have no comeback. There’s no distance selling laws, they could send you anything 😔

Think it preys on everyone wanting a bargain.

I’ve bought used most my life and have been burnt some times, so I’ve always looked at if it’s less than 25% saving buy new, get a warranty.

Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

With regards to timemore… aren’t they a stablished company? Would they really risk of “doing a runner” or upsetting a very large customer base? Or maybe I’m too naïve.

    Nah they wouldn’t do a runner, I’d say they probably underestimated how many backers they would get lol.

    Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

    MediumRoastSteam based on my post? If so, then aplogies for any ambiguity. No, I wasn’t referring to Timemore in my list of concerns. I mentioned them only to illustrate the sheer size of recent KS pledges.

        Sorry be me mixing stuff up lol as I mentioned TM in the meticulous thread 👍

        Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

        Just watched the most recent video from LH on the Met where the ubiquitous failure of the temperature was once again glossed over with “that doesn’t matter because Carlos said he’s changing it”.

        That’s the 4th time I’ve heard a comment like that from a reviewer.

        That is a concern. And this is coming from me, the guy who can normally be relied on to keep his rose coloured spectacles firmly in place.

          live streaming his last comments on the timemore today, then said hes done, probably distancing himself as timemore have just changed there tune around shipping world wide and paying fees..

          Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

            Cuprajake live streaming his last comments on the timemore today, then said hes done, probably distancing himself as timemore have just changed there tune around shipping world wide and paying fees..

            He is certainly flexible….

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              I was slightly confused when he was talking about the motor and its uses in the marine sector; submarine windows. I would say I’m no expert on submarines, however I do know a bit, and I don’t see many windows that open on them…

              Linked video to the clip.

                giampiero Now i wait the next video like a new episode of Breaking Bad😂

                I just skipped through as LH video of the Timemore from 3 months ago….very difficult watching with many bold statements based on…guesswork? Not helpful when a Kickstarter is beginning. Looks like exactly the same thing is happening with the Meticulous, but this time from a designer and developer with no real prior experience of production, or coffee. Good at marketing though!

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                  Del_UK <lol>, the word salad flows, this time with some honey mustard dressing. he could be talking about Chinese submarines, or Russian ones perhaps. So Carlos is using a marine military grade motor…this is really what he is implying.

                  Wow!

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                      Words fail me! What a load of 💩

                      Why are you throwing with so much shit to Lance? at least he is making something public, without his videos what information would people have? Of course you need to do your own research and take everything as false from the 1st second and then research and get your information right: what you want to believe for yourself.

                      I know you had a “fight” with him for something (probably still sour taste from him saying the niche sucks) but Dave to be fair I just found out you are involved into the Niche business, and you are posting on home-barista on the niche topic while throwing shade into other manufacturer topics, isn’t that the same “problem” on what Lance is doing? You are getting into the ring when something bad is said about Niche and now and then you post smth about timemore making a bit of fun of them. From what I know on that forum people involved in a business by any kind should have 0 rights to post about that product. Maybe some time ago you said somewhere something about you being involved into the Niche (not talking here about testing the niche and giving them feedback but talking about owning something in the business) so now it makes sense why you were totally silent mode for the Duo and made no videos about it, but for some reason the Duo went mostly to UK people, no Eu people (some US).

                      It’s okay to have favorites, it’s okay to be oriented towards some products, each forum has that, but it should be made public, directly, so everyone can see it.

                      Lance is a cool guy, he is pasionate, he knows a lot of people and get’s a lot of information. He doesnt have the time to sit and research everything people tell me (Carlos for example) and the idea behind that motor is that it was used at one point into industrial machinery, meaning it must have some durability over time. It’s just an idea that the key points that are supposed to fail first are of a higher quality (these are just words at the moment).

                      I also talk to a lot of people and find out many things (i can’t check if all of them are true) but the one finding out you are involved with Niche after so many years it’s just fked up.

                      An to be clear here, I dont care about timemore, or niche or meticulous, not interested in gear anymore. I’m focusing only on beans and roasting, so i’m not bias towards a product or producer. I just dont like sneaky people, not in 2023, maybe 20 years ago, yes.

                        DenisS I know you had a “fight” with him for something

                        Nope I didn’t have a fight with him at all. He had a disagreement with a member, threw his dummy out of the pram, didn’t read the rules, didn’t contact one of the 3 moderators. Didn’t use the contact form to contact me, didn’t use my personal e-mail which he has and then used his social media to try and destroy the forum, badmouthing it, spinning a load of lies he had been fed by others from another forum and encouraging as many people as he could to not use this forum. All this without the common courtesy to contact me. He also felt he should tell me and others how to run and moderate a forum he had not read the rules for. It’s not great he used his social media presence like that. I lost a lot of respect for him that day.

                        DenisS (probably still sour taste from him saying the niche sucks) but Dave to be fair I just found out you are involved into the Niche business, and you are posting on home-barista on the niche topic while throwing shade into other manufacturer topics, isn’t that the same “problem” on what Lance is doing?

                        Not at all no sour taste from me. I consulted on the design and testing of the Duo and have been totally up front on that. ANY, comments I made on the Niche thread I made on HB, I have been super careful NOT, to offer any opinions. All I have offered is technical information and very little of that. I think I made 3 posts. In fact in my first post in that thread I stated the following and you can see the post at this link https://www.home-barista.com/grinders/niche-duo-83mm-flat-burr-grinder-t86589-260.html#p924458

                        Disclosure: I was involved in the design and testing of the product for more than 1 year, so I won’t comment on whether you should buy it, how good it is etc… For this people should ask reviewers, testers and real customers. I will, however, happily answer any technical questions which don’t breach any in confidence information.

                        DenisS not talking here about testing the niche and giving them feedback but talking about owning something in the business) so now it makes sense why you were totally silent mode for the Duo

                        I own nothing of the Niche business

                        DenisS It’s okay to have favorites, it’s okay to be oriented towards some products, each forum has that, but it should be made public, directly, so everyone can see it.

                        I have always been completely up front about my activities.

                        DenisS Lance is a cool guy, he is pasionate, he knows a lot of people and get’s a lot of information. He doesnt have the time to sit and research everything people tell me (Carlos for example)

                        No, what he tried to do to our forum wasn’t cool and the misinformation that comes from him, intentionally or unintentionally isn’t cool. I find his videos uninformative, misleading and difficult to watch. As an influencer I think he has a position of responsibility, which isn’t executed well.

                        DenisS I also talk to a lot of people and find out many things (i can’t check if all of them are true) but the one finding out you are involved with Niche after so many years it’s just fked up.

                        The first involvement with Niche (the Zero), they donated £150 to a guinea pig sanctuary and the request of my then spouse. I was not paid a penny for all the work I did, or given any stake in the company. What’s fked up is the BS you are coming out with, who has been feeding you this ****

                        DenisS . I just dont like sneaky people, not in 2023, maybe 20 years ago, yes.

                        If you think that of me…and willing to state it along with the other unsavoury personal stuff which isn’t true. Then this isn’t the forum for you. I don’t take kindly to that sort of statement when I have never monetised my YouTube, any online activities, used referral links, Patreon, or kick backs for sales of products. This is a non commercial forum where all products are welcome.

                        You think you “know” a lot, but trust me, you know nothing about the things you are talking about. @Raja123 , I’m glad you liked his post, allows me to tell you; you might be too easily influenced.

                        @DenisS I have decided you would be happier elsewhere to spout your 2nd hand and distasteful comments, I am sure you will find platforms where these are welcomed.

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