Meticulous

Rob666

Words fail me! What a load of 💩

DenisS

Why are you throwing with so much shit to Lance? at least he is making something public, without his videos what information would people have? Of course you need to do your own research and take everything as false from the 1st second and then research and get your information right: what you want to believe for yourself.

I know you had a “fight” with him for something (probably still sour taste from him saying the niche sucks) but Dave to be fair I just found out you are involved into the Niche business, and you are posting on home-barista on the niche topic while throwing shade into other manufacturer topics, isn’t that the same “problem” on what Lance is doing? You are getting into the ring when something bad is said about Niche and now and then you post smth about timemore making a bit of fun of them. From what I know on that forum people involved in a business by any kind should have 0 rights to post about that product. Maybe some time ago you said somewhere something about you being involved into the Niche (not talking here about testing the niche and giving them feedback but talking about owning something in the business) so now it makes sense why you were totally silent mode for the Duo and made no videos about it, but for some reason the Duo went mostly to UK people, no Eu people (some US).

It’s okay to have favorites, it’s okay to be oriented towards some products, each forum has that, but it should be made public, directly, so everyone can see it.

Lance is a cool guy, he is pasionate, he knows a lot of people and get’s a lot of information. He doesnt have the time to sit and research everything people tell me (Carlos for example) and the idea behind that motor is that it was used at one point into industrial machinery, meaning it must have some durability over time. It’s just an idea that the key points that are supposed to fail first are of a higher quality (these are just words at the moment).

I also talk to a lot of people and find out many things (i can’t check if all of them are true) but the one finding out you are involved with Niche after so many years it’s just fked up.

An to be clear here, I dont care about timemore, or niche or meticulous, not interested in gear anymore. I’m focusing only on beans and roasting, so i’m not bias towards a product or producer. I just dont like sneaky people, not in 2023, maybe 20 years ago, yes.

DavecUK

DenisS I know you had a “fight” with him for something

Nope I didn’t have a fight with him at all. He had a disagreement with a member, threw his dummy out of the pram, didn’t read the rules, didn’t contact one of the 3 moderators. Didn’t use the contact form to contact me, didn’t use my personal e-mail which he has and then used his social media to try and destroy the forum, badmouthing it, spinning a load of lies he had been fed by others from another forum and encouraging as many people as he could to not use this forum. All this without the common courtesy to contact me. He also felt he should tell me and others how to run and moderate a forum he had not read the rules for. It’s not great he used his social media presence like that. I lost a lot of respect for him that day.

DenisS (probably still sour taste from him saying the niche sucks) but Dave to be fair I just found out you are involved into the Niche business, and you are posting on home-barista on the niche topic while throwing shade into other manufacturer topics, isn’t that the same “problem” on what Lance is doing?

Not at all no sour taste from me. I consulted on the design and testing of the Duo and have been totally up front on that. ANY, comments I made on the Niche thread I made on HB, I have been super careful NOT, to offer any opinions. All I have offered is technical information and very little of that. I think I made 3 posts. In fact in my first post in that thread I stated the following and you can see the post at this link https://www.home-barista.com/grinders/niche-duo-83mm-flat-burr-grinder-t86589-260.html#p924458

Disclosure: I was involved in the design and testing of the product for more than 1 year, so I won’t comment on whether you should buy it, how good it is etc… For this people should ask reviewers, testers and real customers. I will, however, happily answer any technical questions which don’t breach any in confidence information.

DenisS not talking here about testing the niche and giving them feedback but talking about owning something in the business) so now it makes sense why you were totally silent mode for the Duo

I own nothing of the Niche business

DenisS It’s okay to have favorites, it’s okay to be oriented towards some products, each forum has that, but it should be made public, directly, so everyone can see it.

I have always been completely up front about my activities.

DenisS Lance is a cool guy, he is pasionate, he knows a lot of people and get’s a lot of information. He doesnt have the time to sit and research everything people tell me (Carlos for example)

No, what he tried to do to our forum wasn’t cool and the misinformation that comes from him, intentionally or unintentionally isn’t cool. I find his videos uninformative, misleading and difficult to watch. As an influencer I think he has a position of responsibility, which isn’t executed well.

DenisS I also talk to a lot of people and find out many things (i can’t check if all of them are true) but the one finding out you are involved with Niche after so many years it’s just fked up.

The first involvement with Niche (the Zero), they donated £150 to a guinea pig sanctuary and the request of my then spouse. I was not paid a penny for all the work I did, or given any stake in the company. What’s fked up is the BS you are coming out with, who has been feeding you this ****

DenisS . I just dont like sneaky people, not in 2023, maybe 20 years ago, yes.

If you think that of me…and willing to state it along with the other unsavoury personal stuff which isn’t true. Then this isn’t the forum for you. I don’t take kindly to that sort of statement when I have never monetised my YouTube, any online activities, used referral links, Patreon, or kick backs for sales of products. This is a non commercial forum where all products are welcome.

You think you “know” a lot, but trust me, you know nothing about the things you are talking about. @Raja123 , I’m glad you liked his post, allows me to tell you; you might be too easily influenced.

@DenisS I have decided you would be happier elsewhere to spout your 2nd hand and distasteful comments, I am sure you will find platforms where these are welcomed.

FadedFrontiers

I’m not wanting to wade in on any disagreement but just hope that this can be resolved by @DavecUK and @DenisS offline so we continue to have a diversity of voices and opinions on the forum.

DavecUK I can understand why you took personal offense at this accusation when you strive for impartiality, transparency and you reject opportunities to monetise the forum and your YouTube.

What I’m going to point out next is not an attack on anyone or an attempt to rekindle any arguements, I just want to raise the point in the hope that this will be handled in a similar way. Very similar comments were levelled at Lance Hedrick multiple times when he was briefly a member, and these did not result in any bans. This was handled privately with a warning and I think many will agree it resolved a difficult situation, although many admittedly have issue with the way Lance left and that’s a totally different matter.

I hope this can be resolved in a similar way because as mentioned I appreciate the experience and range of voices that post on here - but also because it’s important to apply rules consistently and fairly, and to not favour certain members because they are friends or whatever reason, nor to come down against harder others because their accusations are against you over other members of the forum.

Again not a criticism, just a post to say I hope the dust settles and this is worked out behind closed doors. Thanks

DavecUK

FadedFrontiers Again not a criticism, just a post to say I hope the dust settles and this is worked out behind closed doors. Thanks

He slandered me in a pretty awful way and I wont have it, I put up with those sorts of accusations for years and years on CFUK…no more. I don’t put myself out there as an influencer and haven’t done the stuff he suggested I have. So I banned him, I suspect he doesn’t care or he wouldn’t have posted like that.

I’m sure you will read his opinion elsewhere, I suspect he might be keen to post the same lies on other forums.

tompoland

FadedFrontiers

I think your main point is a fair one. Equal penalty for an equal violation of rules.

Which I assume includes not slandering other members.

(Sorry, not great at reading rules, probably the Australian convict in me?).

Pointing out facts or comments and asking questions in a genuine attempt to understand is one thing, calling a member deceitful or a liar, well that’s something entirely different.

On the subject of the latest member ban; tolerance should not be extended to someone who comes in and accuses any of us of behaving in a manner that is “xxxxed up”, simply based on their ignorance.

Dave has made public his involvement in helping Niche on multiple forums for many years. To post to the effect that he’s been a duplicitous hypocrite who is undermining the efforts of non-Niche manufacturers, for my two bobs worth, justifies a ban. (Assuming I’m reading the post correctly.)

What makes the slander even worse, is that it’s directed at someone who has served the espresso community selflessly and tirelessly for many, many years. That really, really sucks.

Rob666

To know who and what Lance is, all you have to do is watch one or more (if you have the stamina) of his videos. I prefer facts and demonstrable performance. Dave C provides both of these, it’s a shame most of the ‘influencers’ don’t.
I’m not on anyone’s payroll and I have no axe to grind here. I spent 20 years reviewing pro-audio equipment and the rule there was, if the device has serious flaws, we told the manufacturer and didn’t review it. Yes, there was an element of reviewing stuff in order to get advertising for the mag but we would never compromise on the facts. Dave C doesn’t even have that pressure. I know whose opinions I trust.

tompoland

Rob666 20 years reviewing pro-audio equipment

That gives you enormous credibility compared to some (no, not finger pointing in anyone’s direction) who seem to have made it their second hobby to slag influencers.

capuchin

I’ve got a pair of D13’s if Lance and Carlos need a power source for their machine. Marine tech, so very robust!

DavecUK According to their own marketing blurb its producing 2000 Newtons

“The way Meticulous handles pressure is what sets the machine apart. Instead of boiling water to generate mechanical energy, our 2,000-Newton digital motor pushes water directly over the coffee puck while making over 150 pressure adjustments per second. Whether it is keeping pressure constant at 9 bars or replicating sophisticated pressure profiles, Meticulous offers an unprecedented level of control”

I’m no coffee expert, but that doesn’t seem right to me. If it’s a 58mm basket, 2000 newtons will only give 7.97 bars of pressure.

DavecUK

capuchin I’m no coffee expert, but that doesn’t seem right to me. If it’s a 58mm basket, 2000 newtons will only give 7.97 bars of pressure.

My calculations say it could probably produce about 10.2 bar, so I don’t believe there is a problem with the pressure it can produce. I do however wonder what the lifespan of the motor is going to be like. There is a lot of basic information that’s totally absent for example you’re having to assume it has a 58 millimeter basket, I really don’t know what size filter basket it uses?

giampiero

Sorry but…i could not resist🤭

tompoland

Del_UK that is too 😁 funny. Well done, keep them coming…

giampiero

DavecUK Assuming they are using a “standard” Matrix screen shower, i deduct that the basket is a 58mm,

capuchin

DavecUK Nor me, I just assumed that as it’s a decent guess.

A 58mm basket is 26.42cm2. PxA=F , so 7.57 bars multiplied by 26.42 = 1999.994 Newtons or almost 204kg. You’d need 2377+ Newtons for 9 bar @ 55mm. How are you calculating? Perhaps I’ve gone wrong somewhere.

giampiero

A screen shot from the Meticulous kickstarter page FAQ

Amberale

From DenisS previous comments here, on CFuk and elsewhere it has always seemed that he comments without a filter, presenting opinions as facts.I hope that is what has occurred here but even if that is the case he has quite wrongfully attacked DaveC.
It would appear that the influencer is calling in favours.

tompoland

Amberale t has always seemed that he comments without a filter,

100%. As astute as always AA.

DavecUK

Amberale To coin a phrase, that troll was definitely fed something containing worms

FadedFrontiers

tompoland Equal penalty for an equal violation of rules.

Which I assume includes not slandering other members.

Indeed, I brought it up to equate two incidents in the hope it could be de-escalated similarly, not to get back in to the original drama or take sides. I even emphasised it several times but some of the replies seem to have ignored this and got excited.

At the end of the day I value the range of opinions here but some topics just go around in complete circles with no appreciation for nuance.

tompoland Emily was demoing and more than willing to mention everything she considered unfinished

I’ve seen this mentioned from other testers too, including espressofun who said Carlos encouraged him to openly discuss the issues and bugs on his channel. Understand a machine still ironing out issues after it’s asked for funding is not for everyone but the company doesn’t seem to be hiding it’s flaws at least.

Amberale

DavecUK

It would definitely appear so Dave.

The international On-line Coffee Wannkers Society is probably a lot smaller than it seems from forums.
There are probably 50 of us actively contributing, another 100 occasional voices and a couple of thousand lurkers.
The folks with real coffee knowledge rarely, if ever, contribute on line and I certainly make no claims to being one of them.

It saddens me to see such a helpful forum as this dragged through the gutters.
I am not without fault when it comes to online comments but I do try to hold back most of the time.

tompoland

This post from the Decent Diaspora offsets my concerns re the temperate issues. Tx to Ira

There were 5 or 6 working machines at the SCA show. They seemed more than capable of being taken home and making fine espresso as is. They sure looked finished. And yet here we are on a Decent board using a machine that’s about as far from finished as the Meticulous seemed and it’s been shipping for how many years? Looking at the machine and watching it work over maybe 10 shots, a small sample, but enough to get a feel for how it works and what some of it’s issues are, Emily was demoing and more than willing to mention everything she considered unfinished. If I was looking for a machine to pull espresso, I think it’s quite likely to end up being one of the finest. It should be as temperature stable as anything and it’s ability to do programmed pressure and flow profiling is currently matched only by the Duval. It can within it’s volume limits and flat temperature profile do anything the Decent can do and exceed it in how slow it can flow and how fast it can flow. It’s also almost silent which many would consider a huge advantage. But it’s a single shot at a time machine, possibly a big disadvantage.

dfk41

This is a one off comment fro me, and I will not reply further. There seems to be a widespread assumption, that I slandered LH. If I did, can someone show me where the term ‘liar’ came from please? It is true I do not like ‘influencers’. It is true I do like fact based reviews and can stand a little opinion in there. My spat with LH was simple. Off forum I questioned why he did not show the power brick on his grinder review as for a lot of people it would be a no no due to size/space issues. I received a flippant reply stating that his editor must have removed it from the final cut. I did not reply to that comment even though I did not believe it.

In any case, I already had an answer he gave to Dave, who had stated that he had done 3 video reviews of the same grinder, and in each review thought it important to let the viewer see the brick and make up his own mind. LH replied along the lines of, ‘Yeah, I decided not to show it in my video’

Cuprajake

Dragging up old stuff is pointless,

Move on,

People will never see eye to eye

Just ignore

Let’s talk about other things.

Amberale

Cuprajake

Maria said she will send me pics of my Vostok on Monday.

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