dfk41 I have to be truthful as I cannot say the taste is better or different but I can say that no matter what the bean, I find the resulting drink acceptable enough to continue on.

Ok. So you like the Duo. Great.

You also said you cannot say the taste is better or different. Do you mean you can’t tell the difference between the Zero and the Duo? Or are you saying you don’t want to say it?

And…

With the Zero, did you also find the resulting drink acceptable enough to continue on or did you ever feel that it could have done better?

    MediumRoastSteam I meant exactly what I said, funnily enough! I like the Duo. It is a bigger version of the Zero. I do not drink enough coffee on a daily basis to really be able to put one machine up against the other, so I concentrated on the Duo since I had been asked to test that and not to compare the Zero to the Duo, if that makes sense.

    Taste is subjective and everyone knows that I have kippers for tastebuds! My daily ritual of drinking americano for breakfast continued, followed by a milk based drink around 11am followed by a Hobsons Choice mid afternoon. I am drinking blended coffee rather than Single Origin. At no point can I remember thinking, this does not taste right, it could have done better.

    I can generally tell the difference between a conical grinder and a flat grinder, but I think it is testament to the Duo, that at no point have I replaced it with the Zero!

    dfk41 you still drinking predominantly more ‘darker’ roasts?

    dfk41 I have to be truthful as I cannot say the taste is better or different

    This is really useful, and I for one appreciate the transparency. I think there’s inevitably some gratitude for being chosen to test a popular new product and I’d find it hard to be completely objective I think.

    The more I think about it the more I realise the Duo isn’t for me. I’m also not totally sure the Duo will see the success of the Zero. Although swapping burrs looks about as easy as they could’ve made it, let’s be honest, I really don’t think many people are going to be changing them once a day. Whilst not exactly inevitable there’s also the increased risk of cross-threading the adjustment collar accidentally if you’re removing it all the time.

    So then you’ve either got an £800 brew grinder, which seems like a fairly limited market.

    Or an £800 espresso grinder which presumably will be the main audience. I know at that price point a lot of the competing flats aren’t single dosers, but they’re very very good.

    It’ll be interesting to see how well it does. In any case I can’t see sales of the Zero slowing down.

      Agree that most people won’t swap burrs often. Get two?

        tompoland

        I think this is where it falls apart a bit for me. If one was going to get dedicated espresso/brew grinders then £1600 could be better spent.

        As much as it pains me to say it being in this category, I just don’t think we’re ever going to see a grinder that does both methods exceptionally well without faff. So I don’t blame Niche for not really bothering to try and resolve that fully.

          Ernie1 dfk41 I have to be truthful as I cannot say the taste is better or different

          If you are going to quote me, then please use the whole of the phrase that I said, and not just part of it

          dfk41 I have to be truthful as I cannot say the taste is better or different but I can say that no matter what the bean, I find the resulting drink acceptable enough to continue on.

            Ernie1 - I agree to an extent. The grinder seems well designed and offers the option for those who drink espresso and filter. And it’s the Niche, same design principles that speak for themselves.

            But it might not be for me either. I understand logistics and it’s easier to make one product, one packaging, one choice, one assembly line. But as a consumer, I might have hit the buy button 3 days ago if it was £700 and shipped with the espresso burr set only. There’s enough waste as is in the world, and having a 83mm burr set in a drawer for years to come, maybe taken out once in a while, seems like a silly thing to me, from my use case and a consumer’s point of view.

            Maybe they will re-evaluate that and create the Niche Uno, where you can choose the burr set you want it shipped with (and hopefully they also re-evaluate their overseas shipping policy and remove VAT for exports). There are a lot of grinders coming out at the moment. Potentially not as refined as the Niche, but unlike when the Niche Zero was launched, there are now choices out there on the single dose grinder market.

              i think it entirely depends upon your budget, there all very valid points, but i couldn’t pay £1600 for a grinder, i couldn’t pay £800 atm, i think if you look at it just as an 83mm espresso grinder then in the uk its not a bad price, rest of the world the markets come into play etc, its a tricky one for sure

              Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

              I would love to know niches reasoning around international orders - I can only assume they dont want to (or cannot) deal with the VAT paperwork. If I was purchasing outside of the UK I would not be happy about paying UK vat and then getting hit again once it reaches its destination.

                Taste is subjective and it can be trained, educated. There are also people who simply want a nice syrupy, sweet cup of coffee without strong acidity, sour fruits and such.

                To give you an example if i’m going to use a darker roasted coffee let’s say saka bar (a blend with robusta) when pulling this coffee on 3 grinders the difference between the shots will be almost none, or too little to bother. Now if i’m pulling a super light roasted coffee (a Wendelboe filter roast as espresso) the difference between grinders/burrs will be much bigger even if I adjust my shots to get the best out of each burr.

                So take everything that people post with a big question mark, and rely on the fact that posts are subjective and people describe what they experience with their taste and their preferences.

                Instead of focusing on questions like if this is a taste upgrade from a niche zero, I would rather focus on, do I need an upgrade? i want another grinder, I want to try it, a friend of mine got one so I’ll get one too, I want to change my grinder color, it’s my bday and I want a gift, etc (find one of these reasons to buy it) dont go into trying to convince yourself that the taste is 1000$ better cause thats not how it works.

                In the end this is a hobby, and hobby acquisitions dont need rational reason to buy stuff, you just buy it cause that’s what you wanted, period. No need to be convinced by someone.

                dfk41 If you are going to quote me, then please use the whole of the phrase that I said, and not just part of it

                Sorry yes I didn’t mean to intentionally misquote to swing my reply, just that the bit about it not being better was the key takeaway for me, not the fact it was as good, or good enough to continue using.

                Maybe they just want to up sale now by including 2 set of burrs and they would release single set burrs later. It would be only fair to slash the price a bit for ppl that only use one brewing method.

                MattH Niche can’t be “charging VAT” on exported grinders because exported goods are zero rated for VAT. If they are charging exported orders the same VAT inclusive price as UK orders then they are simply charging 20% more for exported goods.

                  Gagaryn either way not great if you are abroad (outside the uk)

                  MattH I would love to know niches reasoning around international orders - I can only assume they dont want to (or cannot) deal with the VAT paperwork.

                  Ernie1 I’d imagine the Gov’t will clamp down on it in time and make it illegal to charge VAT to customers outside the UK.

                  Why would the UK government care if they are getting paid when they shouldn’t be?

                  If customers outside of the UK are paying VAT in both the UK and their own country, then either Niche is unnecessarily collecting and paying this tax to the UK, which is silly, or they are pocketing the money, which isn’t fair to foreign buyers. In either case it doesn’t seem to me like the right thing to do, especially on an expensive product.

                  Removed. No longer using the forum.