Niche duo - 83mm flat
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dfk41 I have to be truthful as I cannot say the taste is better or different
This is really useful, and I for one appreciate the transparency. I think there’s inevitably some gratitude for being chosen to test a popular new product and I’d find it hard to be completely objective I think.
The more I think about it the more I realise the Duo isn’t for me. I’m also not totally sure the Duo will see the success of the Zero. Although swapping burrs looks about as easy as they could’ve made it, let’s be honest, I really don’t think many people are going to be changing them once a day. Whilst not exactly inevitable there’s also the increased risk of cross-threading the adjustment collar accidentally if you’re removing it all the time.
So then you’ve either got an £800 brew grinder, which seems like a fairly limited market.
Or an £800 espresso grinder which presumably will be the main audience. I know at that price point a lot of the competing flats aren’t single dosers, but they’re very very good.
It’ll be interesting to see how well it does. In any case I can’t see sales of the Zero slowing down.
Agree that most people won’t swap burrs often. Get two?
I think this is where it falls apart a bit for me. If one was going to get dedicated espresso/brew grinders then £1600 could be better spent.
As much as it pains me to say it being in this category, I just don’t think we’re ever going to see a grinder that does both methods exceptionally well without faff. So I don’t blame Niche for not really bothering to try and resolve that fully.
If you are going to quote me, then please use the whole of the phrase that I said, and not just part of it
dfk41 I have to be truthful as I cannot say the taste is better or different but I can say that no matter what the bean, I find the resulting drink acceptable enough to continue on.
Ernie1 - I agree to an extent. The grinder seems well designed and offers the option for those who drink espresso and filter. And it’s the Niche, same design principles that speak for themselves.
But it might not be for me either. I understand logistics and it’s easier to make one product, one packaging, one choice, one assembly line. But as a consumer, I might have hit the buy button 3 days ago if it was £700 and shipped with the espresso burr set only. There’s enough waste as is in the world, and having a 83mm burr set in a drawer for years to come, maybe taken out once in a while, seems like a silly thing to me, from my use case and a consumer’s point of view.
Maybe they will re-evaluate that and create the Niche Uno, where you can choose the burr set you want it shipped with (and hopefully they also re-evaluate their overseas shipping policy and remove VAT for exports). There are a lot of grinders coming out at the moment. Potentially not as refined as the Niche, but unlike when the Niche Zero was launched, there are now choices out there on the single dose grinder market.
i think it entirely depends upon your budget, there all very valid points, but i couldn’t pay £1600 for a grinder, i couldn’t pay £800 atm, i think if you look at it just as an 83mm espresso grinder then in the uk its not a bad price, rest of the world the markets come into play etc, its a tricky one for sure
Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -
MediumRoastSteam
I couldn’t agree more, paying for a burr set I’m not going to use seems pointless and wasteful.
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I would love to know niches reasoning around international orders - I can only assume they dont want to (or cannot) deal with the VAT paperwork. If I was purchasing outside of the UK I would not be happy about paying UK vat and then getting hit again once it reaches its destination.
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Removed.
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Taste is subjective and it can be trained, educated. There are also people who simply want a nice syrupy, sweet cup of coffee without strong acidity, sour fruits and such.
To give you an example if i’m going to use a darker roasted coffee let’s say saka bar (a blend with robusta) when pulling this coffee on 3 grinders the difference between the shots will be almost none, or too little to bother. Now if i’m pulling a super light roasted coffee (a Wendelboe filter roast as espresso) the difference between grinders/burrs will be much bigger even if I adjust my shots to get the best out of each burr.
So take everything that people post with a big question mark, and rely on the fact that posts are subjective and people describe what they experience with their taste and their preferences.
Instead of focusing on questions like if this is a taste upgrade from a niche zero, I would rather focus on, do I need an upgrade? i want another grinder, I want to try it, a friend of mine got one so I’ll get one too, I want to change my grinder color, it’s my bday and I want a gift, etc (find one of these reasons to buy it) dont go into trying to convince yourself that the taste is 1000$ better cause thats not how it works.
In the end this is a hobby, and hobby acquisitions dont need rational reason to buy stuff, you just buy it cause that’s what you wanted, period. No need to be convinced by someone.
dfk41 If you are going to quote me, then please use the whole of the phrase that I said, and not just part of it
Sorry yes I didn’t mean to intentionally misquote to swing my reply, just that the bit about it not being better was the key takeaway for me, not the fact it was as good, or good enough to continue using.
Maybe they just want to up sale now by including 2 set of burrs and they would release single set burrs later. It would be only fair to slash the price a bit for ppl that only use one brewing method.
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Why would the UK government care if they are getting paid when they shouldn’t be?
If customers outside of the UK are paying VAT in both the UK and their own country, then either Niche is unnecessarily collecting and paying this tax to the UK, which is silly, or they are pocketing the money, which isn’t fair to foreign buyers. In either case it doesn’t seem to me like the right thing to do, especially on an expensive product.
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Removed. No longer using the forum.
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Ernie1 But if someone is charging a customer VAT knowing it isn’t applicable to that customer and subsequently pocketing it because it’s not due to HMRC then that seems like something HMRC would want to outlaw. As above, it’s illegal in some countries already.
Just for the legal aspects. I want to clarify that this is not something Niche are doing and I am sure you are not suggesting they are. We can be factual (if we know the facts, and it must be accurate as far as it can be). I’ve no problem with the differential pricing discussion, but we must be very careful what we say.
For accounts to be signed off, what a company is doing must be financially legal.
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If a company is collecting VAT, it must issue an invoice showing the breakdown of the amount paid by the customer. If they don’t send, it must be issued on demand. If no VAT is charged, the invoice won’t show the VAT / tax component.
A VAT registered firm must also file a quarterly VAT return showing the breakdown of sales by region - U.K., EU and the rest. They must also indicate the net VAT (ie due to the firm or HMRC by region) on their VAT returns. I know this as I had filed a VAT return for 6 years when I had run my company.
It’s been a very long time since I ran my firm. The Brexit has complicated the VAT regime. I’m not sure how it’s been sorted.
The bottom line is a firm collecting the VAT must settle the account with the HMRC to the nearest pound. Otherwise, the VAT return / account with the HMRC would remain unreconciled, risking a settlement of the account with interest and/or penalty.