LMSC I like Eufy because you can keep it all local. Yes, there are downsides, but no recording to a cloud that needs a monthly subscription.
I only use the onboard SD card at the moment 2 internal (one in shed, one in kitchen) and one floodlight in garden. Will get a NAS at some point and record to that.
CoffeePhilE You have driven home some valid points; local vs internet based access is a trade-off, which we can minimise the risk by going the VPN route for an example. Similarly, I agree with the VLAN for IoT devices coupled, MAC access control, realising RAID 1 isn’t a back up, keeping a back up copies, etc are sensible approaches.
Meldrew Nothing can be done, if they do that. A BackUPS to safely shut down the systems - NAS, firewall, locally managed hardware for smart devices, etc is a good strategy.
PortafilterProcrastinator Eufy appears popular. We also want to have a flexibility to connect it HomeKit. Some of their external devices can’t connect even with bridge. You don’t to offload your CCTV on cloud.
Really, appreciate every one chipping in. It is an interesting thread for anyone looking into this space. Perhaps, Dave might make it a sticky thread so that people can find it easily.
LMSC Really, appreciate every one chipping in. It is an interesting thread for anyone looking into this space. Perhaps, Dave might make it a sticky thread so that people can find it easily.
Every time I do a sticky it ends up permanently at the top of the discussion main landing thread….I’ve actually been unstickying thread s for a while when ages ago I logged in with my test account and saw 20 stickies on the landing page, when I thought they would only be in the area I put them in.
Unfortunately all the flarum users seem to be happy with the way it works and don’t see why a forum would need area specific stickies…
It’s really any stored data about an individual, which is why I store the minimum. There are all sorts of happy birthday add-ons to things and I hate those, can you imagine it announces on an open forum that it’s your Birthday…you post somewhere forgetfully your true age on the forum and bingo, they got your exact date of birth. Assuming you input your birthday correctly in the first place.
https://coffeetime.freeflarum.com/d/179-what-information-do-we-hold-about-you
DavecUK Exactly. That’s why social medias can be very unsettling. It scary how much some platforms collect; some of them collect every thing, which they could lay their hands on. The only thing I have is WhatsApp to connect with our large family members who are far away from here. We would move to something like Signal, but our family won’t. 😊
LMSC It scary how much some platforms collect; some of them collect every thing, which they could lay their hands on.
Information is money, the more they have the more they can make from you. e.g. On many sites they use tracking cookies, so they can present adverts of more “interest” to you….
Finally, after weeks of a struggle to find a mutually convenient date, a smart home consultant visited me. We looked around the house and had a detailed conversation.
We discussed enabling smart light switches, radiators, media and garden irrigation under the hood. Pending a visit to his place to see how they all work using a dedicated system, I had two pointed questions. which are critical for us.
1: Convenience for my family without worrying about coding, configurations, etc should anything go wrong - if I am not going to be around. The consultant agreed this is critical and always stresses this point to his clients.
2: What if the company and the brain of the stand alone system go belly up? We need spares , just in case. This isn’t a plan B. It all depends on how quickly one can swap, and bring the whole thing up. The proprietary systems will have this potential single point of failure, while the distributed platforms provide an alternative.
Either case, until an alternative is found and become fully functional, we are staring at living in primitive age because these systems, to the best of my understanding, won’t allow a manual operation as a back up. This was indicated by one consultant and the consultant today confirmed this risk.
We discussed this challenge in detail. Assuming, every switch has a neutral, we are looking at parallel connections, one overriding the other. This route will be very expensive.
I plan to visit the consultant’s office some time going forward. Ideally, I would like to take my wife to give her a first-hand experience of what is being planned. This visit may have to wait as we are aiming to sort out changing the windows and doors by this summer. We will have a lot of guests in summer, which is going to make it harder to make any progress. A recent family tragedy only makes it worse.
A dedicated system like Laxone will be neat but will have a plan B risk, which we can’t afford. We will also think of an alternative, which can provide plan B (manual ops).
LMSC while there is some risk here, I think you’re probably worrying a bit too much. While they could fail, they’re specified to last a long time. The most likely failure is a relay failure, so if you keep a relay free you could switch over in a few minutes (plus a bit of programming). Another option is you could buy a spare miniserver so you could switch in case of failure.
The final worst case is that you open up the cabinet, and instead of the wires going through relays you wire them into some switches as a temporary measure.
It’s easy to worry as we base our perception on cheap consumer electronics that is designed to fail after a year or two, but items like modern cars very rarely have electrical issues, as they’re designed to last. Loxone is in that camp.
You just need to get it setup with assisted living in mind 😀. Motion sensors in each room and it’ll turn the lights on and off for you, plus call for help if you don’t move for a certain period.
hornbyben It’s easy to worry as we base our perception on cheap consumer electronics that is designed to fail after a year or two, but items like modern cars very rarely have electrical issues, as they’re designed to last. Loxone is in that camp.
Sure! I do agree I am overthinking a bit. Although, these could last a life time, prevention and planning for the unexpected are critical. Risk analysis and solutions to address a single point of failure are what I do in my work ! 😊
hornbyben plus call for help if you don’t move for a certain period.
Crikey if I do that, they will be round every hour…
hornbyben I just didn’t want to see you with candles as your lighting solution
Sure. No body wants to ! 😅
That would exactly be my concern, should these pack eventually and there is no recourse to an instant alternative, which will always be manual switches.
Covid has made our live so fluid and anything can happen to anyone. We have lost some close friends and family members, and some in 30s and 40s even. I am an old man, should I pack, I don’t want to think I don’t care. I want to ensure everything will work as normal as before the switch, if required.
I am reading a lot on Laxone and heard only great things.
Imagine a failure in winter. My family will be unsettled and furious and so I will be. Haven’t told my wife the cost yet 😂
I need to do some serious reading and thinking. We will call an electrician first under a pretext of a routine inspection, which is over due anyway.
I will post.
LMSC sorry to hear about your losses. This has definitely been a fluid time.
My wife can use the system no problem, but if anything ever happened to me then I’m sure she’d need to take out the support option from Rob. Currently I tend to do all my own maintenance and updates.
If you want the benefits of a smart home then I don’t think you can get away from the centralised model really, and this is certainly the approach of choice for the professional systems. The distributed model still tends to communicate back a single source (usually cloud), and I think is really because it makes selling them easier (think Hue light bulbs etc). I’m not sure which approach ends up cheaper in the long term though. I seem to recall Loxone saying they designed for an 80 year life. I’d be surprised if the consumer stuff is designed for more than a couple of years average failure rate.
My wife has told me if I ever die then she’s getting an electrician in to rip it all out 😂
However we can at least use the light switches for manual control. and if one ever dies and doesn’t allow control, it’s a 5 min job for me to remove it.
hornbyben sorry to hear about your losses. This has definitely been a fluid time.
Thank you mate!
hornbyben If you want the benefits of a smart home then I don’t think you can get away from the centralised model really, and this is certainly the approach of choice for the professional systems. The distributed model still tends to communicate back a single source (usually cloud), and I think is really because it makes selling them easier (think Hue light bulbs etc). I’m not sure which approach ends up cheaper in the long term though. I seem to recall Loxone saying they designed for an 80 year life. I’d be surprised if the consumer stuff is designed for more than a couple of years average failure rate.
Smart home is the future. It’s still maturing.
simonc My wife has told me if I ever die then she’s getting an electrician in to rip it all out 😂
She is well prepared then! 😂
simonc However we can at least use the light switches for manual control.
It is an important fall back option. Will have to think how. If the switches have neutral, then potentially there is a workaround. The electrician would know.
@>@simonc″#p12897 if one ever dies and doesn’t allow control, it’s a 5 min job for me to remove it.
on a lighter vein!
This has been interesting to follow, and I’m pretty much of a mind with LMSC, certainly in terms of single point of failure, etc. .
I might go back a stage further than that, though, in terms of Dave’s “revert to switches” comment.
For me, any “smart” capabiliies are a function of what convenience they offer, versus what they cost. If they either offe too little benefot, or cost too much, they aren’t worth it. Obviously, I mean worth it to me. Others mileage may vary.
That ends up meaning simple add-on devices, like smart bulbs, with or without either motion sensors (got a couple, where relevant) or additional remote switch/faders, are fine, but a whole home integrated system, to me, just isn’t wrth either the hassle or the cost. At the end of the day, we managed with simple light switches and thermostatic radiator valves for years and could easily do so again.
Getting ‘radio’ through the internet is also fine …. while it works. But a pain in the rear when it doesn’t, which for me is far too often. Relying on smart switches that cannot be over-ridden simoly by flicking an actual normal on/off switch is not acceptable.
Which brings me to single point of failure. Quite a few times I’ve lost audio services becaue my net connection goes down for anything from minutes to a couple of days, so a system with a remote element (like Amazon/Google) is not acceptable except as an add-on. Anything that requires on-going service visits is also,for me, an uuter non-starter, as is anything that requires any form of coding to set up, or to maintain. To be clear, I can do that, having been coding since the ’70s, but the wife can’t, and I don’t know how long I’ll be here. Could be many years, but might not. I’m not saddling the wife with that, for any reason.
So …. smart add-on services, like lights or radio, are viable providing there’s a manual system lying behind it that can be a fall-back for someone with zero technical expertise, and even less than zero inclination.
And because the utility of such add-ons is inherently limited, so is what I’m prepared to pay for them. A full “smart” home mght be the way of the future but not, in my opinion, until the cost comes way, WAY down, and setting up. tweaking and twiddling gets to be no more complicated than adjusting a dial on a thermostatic valve, or pushing a button on a dimmer switch. Do I want those kinds of household functions reliant on either broadband or cellular data? Hell, no. Definitely not. Nor will I accept anything fundamental, like control of lighting and heating depending on a remote “smart” company. It’s bad enough depending on gas and electricity (and water) companies, which is why I’m much more interested in home insulation, personal micro-generation (and storage) etc. It’s not (for me) viable to rely 100% on that, at least not yet, but if I could, and could be sure not be be saddled with expensive but proprietary solutions, I would, providing it was financially viable.. It’ll come, I beleive, but not any time soon. It’s all too nascent, too early-adopter, and I’m not interested in beta-testing, (or currently (excuse pun) more like alpha-testing) it.
CoffeePhilE I agree with this….the acid test for me: If someone can come into the home and operate everything without thinking about how. Then it’s very smart….
I can control every device by voice or phone, or let it run to its schedule..but anyone can come in and control it manually as normal. Otherwise, I think things can become so clever that they end up stupid.
