Vesuvius Pressure Profiling Machine - General Discussion

JahLaza Vesuvius wastes a lot of water to the drip tray for the first 20 seconds or so of each shot. Not like a dribble but a pretty big flow. I’m currently using the stock profile 1, which shoots up to 11 bar, not sure but don’t ‘think’ it wasted this much water before I’ll try get a video next shot, but, does this sound right?

I believe the water is coming from the vent valve not the expansion valve, at least that’s what it looked like to me on the video. A few questions, so I can help you.

• How old is it, from new.
• Sounds like it didn’t always do it, when did it start (or you first notice it
• The vent valves usually open at 11.5 to 12.5 bar as that’s when the spring pressure is finally overcome
• When did you last backflush it and do you backflush it properly.

DavecUK hi Dave, thanks for chiming in

1. It is a march 2022 model I bought from new when Paolo gave us a deal on here
2. Only noticed it the last couple of weeks or so
3. I backflush with blank disc/water every three or four days and with pulycaff every three weeks maybe
4. I make about 4 to 5 coffees a day with it
5. I last back flushed with pulycaff last week. I back flush with blank disc and water a couple of times first to get rid of any free debris. I then back flush with pullycaf by pressurising to approx 5 bar,release pressure, wait about 20/30 seconds repeat. I repeat this about 4 times then clean blank basket and repeat the above flushing steps with water. This is a procedure I found on tapatalk I think that you had suggested for the Vesuvius
6. I also observed the vent movement of the lever was very stiff after regreasing with molycote after this procedure last week. I disassembled the release chamber (bottom part?) of the group head to see if anything was sticking or any dirt there but didn’t see anything. Still stiff when I lower the lever at the end of the shot. Just adding this in case it could coincide with the stated problem

Adrianmsmith hi Adrian, I can try this tomorrow but this seems to have developed recently, I’ve used this profile without this issue for a long time. DavecUK I will try get a better video in the morning

JahLaza I also observed the vent movement of the lever was very stiff after regreasing with molycote after this procedure last week. I disassembled the release chamber (bottom part?) of the group head to see if anything was sticking or any dirt there but didn’t see anything. Still stiff when I lower the lever at the end of the shot. Just adding this in case it could coincide with the stated problem

The lever movement shouldn’t be stiff, that usually indicates wear, or possibly you made an assembly mistake? However from what you say it started before that. So the stiffness of the lever may not be related at all, just coincidence and wear.

Or if you disassembled for lubrication and cleaning a while ago, perhaps you made an error e.g. got the springs mixed up?

I say all this because the actual Viton seats in the valves are usually good for 7+ years in E61 groups and wear on the cam followers wouldn’t cause the vent to leak, although it would cause stiffness and if really bad, make it difficult to open the vent to depressurise.

It might be that for whatever reason the vent valve/group valves and springs might need replacing to stop this happening.

DavecUK I have noticed more water too going into the drip tray, I back flush every day after coffee making is over and puly caff once a month then grease up cam etc. what springs etc will I need to buy please to cure the issue and where do they fit thank you.

Tried it this morning with profile 5 which peaks at 9 bar, no discharge at all to drip tray.

DavecUK I have been very careful how I reassembled it, but there is only one spring in the Vesuvius right? The pre infusion one is absent by design so it’s just the very bottom one? I have the pump speed down around 190 also as it was overshooting past 11 bar, I made this change a number of weeks ago so it’s not really going past 11.2 bar or so now I think

The lever action has been stiff for venting after regreasing for a long time now. That was why I actually took the vent section apart last week as I was tedious about applying molycote - ensured surfaces were bone dry etc.

So, I’ve two issues, excessive discharge at higher pressures and the stiff lever less of a concern but I would obviously like to address

DavecUK I have noticed when I examined each section that it was very difficult to manually push down the internals of the very bottom piece of the pipe as in the pic below (taken from your site) is there an internal part to this as this was the stiffest part of the whole assembly and the only possible source of an issue I could see?

JahLaza

Trying to find a photo to help you, but, I have to say yours looks a week old!! It’s “too clean”. 🤓☕

Mine had been descaled badly and I assume the solution left in for weeks (as it was stored after the descaled) and all the chrome on the internal parts had been dissolved off and scattered around like glitter. The obsession for descaling I’m sure causes more issues than it solves.

But after a thorough clean and soaking the springs and e61 parts in cafiza for a while it all worked perfectly. Yours in comparison looks like a new machine. 🤓

JahLaza it was very difficult to manually push down the internals of the very bottom piece of the pipe as in the pic below (taken from your site) is there an internal part to this as this was the stiffest part of the whole assembly and the only possible source of an issue I could see?

That’s how it should be, you are pushing against a spring that should be exerting a strong force against that, as it’s holding the vent valve closed. When you lower the lever to vent the group, that action pushes down on that lower vent valve and opens it.

Check the seat is clean on both the lower tube and the valve face that pushes against it. Also run a test at 10 bar constant pressure and see if it still opens?

DavecUK Apologies in advance, this will be obvious to you but this is my first E61! The lower tube is the one circled below yes? This is all one piece. The valve seat you mention, is this internal to this tube? I cannot get at it. None of the other moving parts are really in contact with anything really, and I had applied molycote to any that sit against the walls of the tube

Adrianmsmith apologies for the confusion I’ve caused with that, the valve circled below was oriented the opposite way when in use and when I replaced

JahLaza The tube you circled is not where the valve seals. Clearly the vent valve is the wrong way up, but the red arrows show the valves viton seal and the seat is inside the tube, also shown with a red arrow. Check they are clean.

DavecUK yes, it was the wrong way up in the picture I took, it was the right way up anytime it’s been in place. Thanks for informing the identity of the valves.

my question was then on to the very bottom piece/tube/barrel, is there any internal part in that? If yes, can that be removed?

L’autre problem - what’s your thoughts on the straight 10 bar shot? It’s discharging water to the drip tray excessively for the entire shot. Many thanks in advance