Gagaryn Let us just suppose you are right then matey, and the motors whether custom specified or not cost circa $5…….are you aware of very many failing? I do not know how many units the Zero has sold but it must be tens of thousands. @1% per 10,000 fail rate, that is 100 units. I cannot say with certainty but on the various forums etc that Niche are discussed on, I have not seem 100 units reported as having failed with motor issues. This would suggest that they are doing something right with the motors?
Niche Duo - problems or bias?
Gagaryn Sorry if I was not clear. I was not implying that you did say the motors had a history of failing. What I was saying, was whether a $5 Aliexpress special, or something else, Niche seem to have the motor correct. The motor came in for special criticism by ‘the cabal’. I do not know if you were around in those days to witness the intimidation and nastiness that was chucked at folks associated with Niche. Dave came in for special treatment by the bullying pack. What they failed to recognise, was that making a grinder sub £500 that was as close to design perfection as you could get (sure some dislike the colours, some want a hopper, some want flat burrs) drove him on. This is exactly the same as the same mob, mainly pro Londinium people carried on their attack when news of the Evo Leva started to circulate. Look what happened there. And remember, if there had been no Evo Leva then the Nurri, much loved by some would never have seen the light of day
It seems that the “politeness filter” that most people have for in person conversation is removed for some people, online. Any core values that we all treasure just disappear, particularly if they are anonymous. I once subsequently met a terrible on-line troll in person and was amazed that his in person behavior was relatively friendly. So I just do not participate in online conversations that involve any form of mean spirited debate. And I am very careful about everything that I write and post in a public venue, as anything I post can impact others, along with my own reputation.
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Gagaryn I’m not knocking the Niche - a happy owner, but I reckon that price for the motor seems about right, perhaps even less when ordering in the quantities that Niche is.
There is no magic in the motor, it will be ordered to a specific specification which is what people will be referring to when they claim it is custom wound, that’s normal practice.
From the teardowns I’ve seen Niche are sourcing the motors from a variety of Chinese suppliers. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if some of these ended up on Aliexpress, often happens due to supplier overstock and also not unknown for suppliers to dump stuff on AliExpress that was rejected by the intended customers.
Just to correct some speculation.
- The motors don’t cost $5, they are more.
- Normal practice is not custom wound (and other customisations), people generally take what is the standard motors and gear it to suit, or get close to their requirements.
- I believe they work closely with1 supplier to ensure quality and specification. None of the motors for Niche are dumped on Aliexpress, or available to anyone but Niche.
I know this because I specified the exact speed I wanted the Duo motor to run at and the ratios of a planetary box could not achieve that speed with the standard offerings. It required motors running at a specific speed with a specific planetary ratio to not only give the required torque (as you know it will grind 18g of green coffee from a standing start), but also the required burr speed range for 230/240 and 110/120V. This speed required to minimise the burr overpack on grinding to reduce fines. caused by coffee grinding against itself.
All whilst delivering an acceptable grind time!
P.S. The Niche Zero also had to work at 110/120 230/240 and 100V (a side project)
DavecUK Just to correct some speculation.
The motors don’t cost $5, they are more.
Normal practice is not custom wound (and other customisations), people generally take what is the standard motors and gear it to suit, or get close to their requirements.
I believe they work closely with1 supplier to ensure quality and specification. None of the motors for Niche are dumped on Aliexpress, or available to anyone but Niche.
A lot of generally and believes in that, sounds like you are correcting speculation with more speculation :-).
I’m not questioning the quality of the motors - I never have! But I’m afraid the claim that Niche are doing something unique or special by having motors built to their specifications just isn’t correct - contrary to your claim, that is normal manufacturing practice and there are dozens of suppliers in China (and elsewhere) geared up and ready to build motors to whatever specification the customer demands - it’s exactly their business model and motor manufacturing is a huge market. Minimum order quantities with many of these suppliers is magnitudes smaller than Niche will be ordering - for both modified catalogue parts and blueprint builds.
Anyway - I’m out now ahead of the inevitable pile on and claims that I’m an idiot and don’t know what I’m talking about as wasn’t party to design process etc. etc.
DavecUK - Dave, quick question:
This thread/post: https://coffeetime.freeflarum.com/d/2246-simple-niche-modifications/34, the member says Niche has confirmed that’s the motor used. It refers to a post mentioned earlier on on that thread, with the specification of the motor and the manufacturer/seller contact details for orders. In that specific post, it has a picture of the motor (here for convenience) 
So it might be that anyone can order the motor if they want to? But it might not be for the correct Niche spec?
Personally, don’t really care about cost of the motor, who makes it, whether it costs £5 or £50 and all the politics behind it. Just wanted bring this to the foreground as this has now turned into a motor discussion.
Gagaryn I. do not think you are an idiot, or that you do not know what you are talking about either. But, I do think you are applying general engineering principles to a specialist coffee product.
Gagaryn Have you wondered why Dave has not weighed in? He could……he could tell you things that you are simply not aware of……not every aspect of design is shown on the table top for all to see……but, I am not going to convince you since you want to see data and I cannot supply that……and I doubt Dave will!
dfk41 Have you wondered why Dave has not weighed in?
I’ve wondered why you haven’t noticed that he has.
dfk41 he could tell you things that you are simply not aware of
No doubt :-)
dfk41 I am not going to convince you since you want to see data
Do I? What data do I want to see? You seem to know what I want better than I know what I want. :-)
Ohhh juicy 😎not sure if I’m right or wrong, wasn’t the motor winding a specific problem and it got resolved, could wrong 😂
Jony Ohhh juicy 😎not sure if I’m right or wrong, wasn’t the motor winding a specific problem and it got resolved, could wrong 😂
No not really, that was all bottomed out well before the launch of any Niche grinders. They take reliability incredibly seriously.
lyxotte Sorry, I missed this. I have been playing with the Caravel recently and have decided to keep it for the moment. Good luck with finding one!
I had initially supported on this forum for the duo to be available in uno form when it first came out and was glad when niche relented as it is always good for the consumers for more reasonably affordable grinders to be available in the larger burr sizes. I have no doubt it will do the job as a flat burr single dosing grinder as well as the zero has for conical grinders.
Personally I have not been interested so much in the grinder as i prefer to use mostly light roast beans and I understand that the mazzer burrs the niche comes in are optimised for darker roasts beans. In addition I already have grinders equipped with SSP burrs in 64mm and I understand that there isn’t much tangible upgrade gain from 64mm to 83mm to bother with getting 83mm grinder as well. If I were an exclusively traditional espresso fan and if I did not already have flat burr grinders, the niche duo in uno configuration would certainly be one of the candidates for consideration.
fwiw theres not too much difference between the ssp hu 83mm and th mazzer 83mm burrs ive had both
Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -
