Jason1wood I paid over £4,500 for an Evo 2 this time last year (inclusive of all import fees etc).
Only way to get a price is to email direct.
My one went back to Italy for a refund after a lengthy and stressful saga.
Best of luck with your decision - my advice would be to keep it simple and go with your gut.
Niche Zero
Niche Zero
@dfk41 edited my post because I keep trying not to get into disagreements.
There’s not really a standout feature on the Linea range. I guess I can only list the things I enjoy-
It feels so bloody solid. On other machines I’ve had bits just felt a bit ‘flimsy. Like the the panels would flex a little, or the knobs felt fragile and light. The LM has a heft to it that’s just quite tactile and enjoyable to me.
I enjoy that there’s little to no maintenance beyond backflushing and group gasket replacement. There aren’t actually that many non-E61 machines out there in the £2-5000 range.
Also something seems to make the shots less susceptible to bad prep. I know this sounds like utter nonsense but I can’t really explain why this is happening. On previous machines, if I didn’t get a grind pretty bang on, it was usually unpleasant. On the LM, even shots that I’m convinced will taste underextracted can be perfectly drinkable.
I’ve chalked this up to the temperature stability. We know how much this can affect taste. An extreme example is say a Rancilio Silvia. If you don’t temp surf it and pull a shot with the temp ramping down, it tastes awfully sour.
I’m fully aware it sounds like complete BS… but I suppose what I’m saying is that the LM allows me to be lazy and rushed in my prep, and still get enjoyable coffee. I’ve dabbled with RDT and all that stuff but I come back to just wanting a fast, simple and repeatable process. ‘Espresso’ means fast, after all!
Honestly though I’m not completely single minded. I think there’s a range of beautiful machines out there, and for anyone who wants profiling the levers from Nurri/ACS look brilliant.
I recommended an ACS Minima to a friend the other day who was looking for a machine.
La Marzocco Linea Mini - Mazzer Philos
Ikawa Roaster
I have another perspective, which may or may not be helpful! I have a Decent DE1, which I would recommend and would happily buy another if it broke tomorrow.
I was considering a similar group of machines as you were when I bought it three or so years ago, and wanted something that could make delicious espresso, steam milk, be small enough to travel with, and allow me tinker with profiling as well as be push-button simple for my wife. The DE1 is the only product I am aware of currently available that ticks all of my boxes. I would have jumped at a small lever machine if my wife didn’t also want to make coffee. The DE1 is seen as a ‘complicated’ machine because it has the option to be. Now I have a couple of different profiles set up for the roast level I’m using, I don’t currently do much more than push a button to pull a shot. I can do a lot more if I want to, if I feel like a profile isn’t quite right for a particular bean, or if I feel like trying something new, but at the moment I have the tablet happily in a drawer out the way.
I wouldn’t rule out any machine for the range of possibilities it offers, just like I wouldn’t suggest you buy just a hammer over a full set of tools. Just because you may not want to use them now doesn’t mean you won’t feel like doing so in future.
The caveat to that of course is if you are a 100% fan of only massive hammers. In which case I’d probably pony up and get a Strietman*.
I guess it comes down very much to what your set of boxes are that need to be ticked. If my wife didn’t want to make espresso as well, I probably would have gone for a lever from ACS/Nurri, if I didn’t want to tinker with profiling, I might have considered an LMLM or Micra, if I didn’t want to steam milk, it would have been the Strietman. I think David is right when he advises that everyone will recommend their own machine, probably because for them
it best fits their specific set of needs. The trick is trying to find out what yours are and then getting the machine that fits them best.
*for coffee, not hammering. I don’t think that would be covered under the warranty.
Decent DE1 • Mazzer Philos
temp control is key imo, after that its personal preference
with the issues i had with the acs id not want another or can hand on heart recommend one, they make great coffee.
but then so does my decent as did the bianca, lets face it anything over £2000 should!!! it should work out the box,
the two Italian levers are hand made, and as such i feel theres more to go wrong, and the back up side of things can be hard too
Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -
HarveyMushman All makes perfect sense……told you, we do things for our own reasons, so it makes me glad to see you so happy!
The good thing with the LM is they seem to hold their value and generally appeal to a larger group of people than many lever machines initially do. If at any time you want to move it on, you likely won’t have too much of an issue unless it’s in bad condition.
It’s good you did some research and know some of the trade offs. I went for an acs even though I’ve read a few of the pains people went through. That’s mainly because I routinely deal with electronics and diy, so am willing to repair stuff if I have to. That experience isn’t for everyone, though, which is why people move on to something else.
Given your desire and requirements, I can’t see anything inherently wrong with trying an LM. Keep us informed of how you get on.
Raja123 The good thing with the LM is they seem to hold their value and generally appeal to a larger group of people than many lever machines initially do. If at any time you want to move it on, you likely won’t have too much of an issue unless it’s in bad condition.
This is absolutely true.
Great advice there gents.
Oh just followed that Strietman link 😍😍😍wow.
Have plenty to think about but what @HarveyMushman mentions about quick repeatable easy prep and espresso is what I’m after rather than chasing a ‘godshot’
Fwiw when I moved from the Bianca to the Evo leva my Mrs stopped using it,
When I got the decent she started again.
Make of that what you will
Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -
Cuprajake that’s what’s putting me off a leva. Would like her to get involved
Jason1wood I have the Strietman. I prefer the shots I get from it to the Decent. The two machines are pretty much on opposite ends of the spectrum. The tactile response of pulling a shot, and the 49mm group lend to an experience that i look forward to every day even after a couple of years of ownership. It’s difficult to pull a bad shot with the Strietman, but it takes time to learn how to make consistently great shots with it. I wouldn’t say it’s for everyone - even once you learn how to use it well, there’s an inherent focus required. I enjoy the overall process, but there are times I have to dial into meetings, and if I want to make a shot during that period, it can be better for me to use a more automated machine.
Decent is being sold now, to make way for the Vostok, which I’ll use when I need to be a bit less involved with the brewing process, or just to compare how the coffee I roast at home brews on each machine.
Depends, not everyone wants that feeling,
Esp if it’s not a sprung lever. I’ve not looked
I’d like something like that or cremina or ponte vecci but Mrs wouldn’t touch it
Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -
Ffs lads, just watched videos of the decent and looks a great bit of kit also.
I need to calm down here and just pick…….🤣🤣🤣
@Raja123 you selling your Decent? What one is it??
His has loads with it, if you didn’t want all the bits you’d get a good chunk back on eBay for them
Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -
Jason1wood @Raja123 you selling your Decent?
You might check out on the other forum, unless he has listed it here. :-)
I’d have a Decent if I was looking for a profiling machine. Someone posted a vid here a while back showing a transparent case version and it looked great.
Whilst there’s limitless possibilities for faffing, it also offers the one-button simplicity if you want it.
Also the size is great, nice compact machine.
La Marzocco Linea Mini - Mazzer Philos
Ikawa Roaster
HarveyMushman I wonder why it uses a Vibe pump when there are so many other options? I wonder how many people who buy new, declare the cost of the software and pay the vat on it?
dfk41 I wonder why it uses a Vibe pump when there are so many other options?
It’s not ideal, I don’t miss the sound of a vibe pump.
Unless I’m mistaken I don’t think you can use a rotary in the way the Decent works where flow is controlled at the pump. Maybe a gear pump would work but not sure how large they are.
I might be totally wrong though.
La Marzocco Linea Mini - Mazzer Philos
Ikawa Roaster
Way the decent works it needs the vibe pumps for the accuracy, they are cheaper but just as robust, decent have two machines running constantly in the factory iirc they are on 200,000 shots a piece
@dfk41 they are not the only company who fudge figures I’ve had machines come from Europe with no important charges ….
Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -
Cuprajake I was not really complaining about them fudging as it benefits the end user, but, when the cost of the software greatly exceeds the hardware, it makes me think!
