Not sure how good these machines are or how much love they get but been having a flick through Facebook and came across this if anyone was interested [URL=https://i.imgur.com/xgejQHr.jpeg][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/xgejQHr.jpeg[/IMG][/URL]

hes in the lever group on fb from memory, theres vids there too

Do love the look of the machine but had no experience with levas.

fwiw its near the price of a new evo from memory and a new decent and a lm micra and a londinium lr24 so id not be paying that,

esp on bf [URL=https://i.imgur.com/mW0NhEX.png][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/mW0NhEX.png[/IMG][/URL]

@"Cuprajake"#p73690 where is bf? Seems that LM have stopped their black Friday prices. Looking for a used Mini rather than a new Micra, all depends what's available when my rebate drops haha

@"Cuprajake"#p73689 A linea isn't comparable to a hybrid lever in just about everything though and while a decent is super programmable, it offers the polar opposite in philosophy to a lever. The closest parallel is the evo which is also a hybrid lever but even the evo is quite different in its workflow and UI. I dont know who this seller is and i have no connection with the seller but the price of this unit seems to be about GBP1300 or thereabouts cheaper than a new nurri that has comparable specs? If so that is almost 30 per cent less than a new one so it doesn't seem too bad a deal if ut is still in good condition.

@"Jason1wood"#p73688 Begore i replaced it with a nurri a couple of years ago, I bought an izzo lever many years sight unseen without ever having actually used a lever before in person but from the get go, it was easy and straight forward to use. Having used levers, pump machines have had very little appeal to me ever since. So dont worry about never having used levers before, you should take to it like a duck to water. Despite its many capabilities, the nurri is at the heart of it still a spring lever machine with all the simplicity that entails, and eveb it's advanced functions are intuitive to use.

Just pointing out you can buy various brand new machines for the price of that used nurri Wasn't comparing any of them

If I want a used lever, I will look around for a used Evo 1. Terrific value for money as you may get it at a bit less than a half of that listed price. If new, I will get a Vostok or a Decent or an LM, if budget is not an issue. I have an Evo 1.

Nurri on FB

dfk41

HarveyMushman I think you know I was referring to the influencer market who make a living from upselling anything they are given, often to the detriment of some of their followers. You forget, I have had a GS3. Once the pleasure of owning a ‘badge’ went, then you were left with a coffee machine that made coffee and was no better and no worse than many others. Yes, it had a saturated group….so what! I enjoyed owning it but not for anything to do with the coffee it made. I therefore question any company, that has a reputation at the top end of the market in terms of price, who produce new models that are lesser in all ways than their flagship models, and seem to have no silver bullet to make them justifiable for the price they charge.

Owning a coffee machine is a very personal thing. If you asked me what my own Evo leva has that makes it special, then I could reel off a few things. Perhaps not unique though. Without a doubt is the use of the hybrid La San Marco group especially being a 54mm group. Perhaps I have it wrong about The LM Mini and Micra models. I have never tried one and I certainly do not hate them or have any feelings towards them (other than pity for they are very ugly). If they have a standout feature I would love to know more. What gives them that edge and what is the edge over?

dfk41

Jason1wood That is because they sell direct to the customer. All you need to do is drop Maria at ACS an email and ask. There are so many variations available as well. The other problem is that Paolo and Dave are constantly tinkering with design and features so being a small family firm as they are, they would need a large web team to apply the constant changes!

I think the question you need to ask yourself Jason, is do you want to make coffee, or exceptional coffee?

sales@elcor.it

Ando

Jason1wood I paid over £4,500 for an Evo 2 this time last year (inclusive of all import fees etc).

Only way to get a price is to email direct.

My one went back to Italy for a refund after a lengthy and stressful saga.

Best of luck with your decision - my advice would be to keep it simple and go with your gut.

HarveyMushman

@dfk41 edited my post because I keep trying not to get into disagreements.

There’s not really a standout feature on the Linea range. I guess I can only list the things I enjoy-

It feels so bloody solid. On other machines I’ve had bits just felt a bit ‘flimsy. Like the the panels would flex a little, or the knobs felt fragile and light. The LM has a heft to it that’s just quite tactile and enjoyable to me.

I enjoy that there’s little to no maintenance beyond backflushing and group gasket replacement. There aren’t actually that many non-E61 machines out there in the £2-5000 range.

Also something seems to make the shots less susceptible to bad prep. I know this sounds like utter nonsense but I can’t really explain why this is happening. On previous machines, if I didn’t get a grind pretty bang on, it was usually unpleasant. On the LM, even shots that I’m convinced will taste underextracted can be perfectly drinkable.

I’ve chalked this up to the temperature stability. We know how much this can affect taste. An extreme example is say a Rancilio Silvia. If you don’t temp surf it and pull a shot with the temp ramping down, it tastes awfully sour.

I’m fully aware it sounds like complete BS… but I suppose what I’m saying is that the LM allows me to be lazy and rushed in my prep, and still get enjoyable coffee. I’ve dabbled with RDT and all that stuff but I come back to just wanting a fast, simple and repeatable process. ‘Espresso’ means fast, after all!

Honestly though I’m not completely single minded. I think there’s a range of beautiful machines out there, and for anyone who wants profiling the levers from Nurri/ACS look brilliant.

I recommended an ACS Minima to a friend the other day who was looking for a machine.

dfk41

HarveyMushman All makes perfect sense……told you, we do things for our own reasons, so it makes me glad to see you so happy!

JammyDodger

I have another perspective, which may or may not be helpful! I have a Decent DE1, which I would recommend and would happily buy another if it broke tomorrow.

I was considering a similar group of machines as you were when I bought it three or so years ago, and wanted something that could make delicious espresso, steam milk, be small enough to travel with, and allow me tinker with profiling as well as be push-button simple for my wife. The DE1 is the only product I am aware of currently available that ticks all of my boxes. I would have jumped at a small lever machine if my wife didn’t also want to make coffee. The DE1 is seen as a ‘complicated’ machine because it has the option to be. Now I have a couple of different profiles set up for the roast level I’m using, I don’t currently do much more than push a button to pull a shot. I can do a lot more if I want to, if I feel like a profile isn’t quite right for a particular bean, or if I feel like trying something new, but at the moment I have the tablet happily in a drawer out the way.

I wouldn’t rule out any machine for the range of possibilities it offers, just like I wouldn’t suggest you buy just a hammer over a full set of tools. Just because you may not want to use them now doesn’t mean you won’t feel like doing so in future.

The caveat to that of course is if you are a 100% fan of only massive hammers. In which case I’d probably pony up and get a Strietman*.

https://www.strietman.net/

I guess it comes down very much to what your set of boxes are that need to be ticked. If my wife didn’t want to make espresso as well, I probably would have gone for a lever from ACS/Nurri, if I didn’t want to tinker with profiling, I might have considered an LMLM or Micra, if I didn’t want to steam milk, it would have been the Strietman. I think David is right when he advises that everyone will recommend their own machine, probably because for them
it best fits their specific set of needs. The trick is trying to find out what yours are and then getting the machine that fits them best.

*for coffee, not hammering. I don’t think that would be covered under the warranty.

Cuprajake

temp control is key imo, after that its personal preference

with the issues i had with the acs id not want another or can hand on heart recommend one, they make great coffee.

but then so does my decent as did the bianca, lets face it anything over £2000 should!!! it should work out the box,

the two Italian levers are hand made, and as such i feel theres more to go wrong, and the back up side of things can be hard too

Raja123

Jason1wood

The good thing with the LM is they seem to hold their value and generally appeal to a larger group of people than many lever machines initially do. If at any time you want to move it on, you likely won’t have too much of an issue unless it’s in bad condition.

It’s good you did some research and know some of the trade offs. I went for an acs even though I’ve read a few of the pains people went through. That’s mainly because I routinely deal with electronics and diy, so am willing to repair stuff if I have to. That experience isn’t for everyone, though, which is why people move on to something else.

Given your desire and requirements, I can’t see anything inherently wrong with trying an LM. Keep us informed of how you get on.

DavecUK

Raja123 The good thing with the LM is they seem to hold their value and generally appeal to a larger group of people than many lever machines initially do. If at any time you want to move it on, you likely won’t have too much of an issue unless it’s in bad condition.

This is absolutely true.

Jason1wood

Great advice there gents.

Oh just followed that Strietman link 😍😍😍wow.

Have plenty to think about but what @HarveyMushman mentions about quick repeatable easy prep and espresso is what I’m after rather than chasing a ‘godshot’

Raja123

Jason1wood I have the Strietman. I prefer the shots I get from it to the Decent. The two machines are pretty much on opposite ends of the spectrum. The tactile response of pulling a shot, and the 49mm group lend to an experience that i look forward to every day even after a couple of years of ownership. It’s difficult to pull a bad shot with the Strietman, but it takes time to learn how to make consistently great shots with it. I wouldn’t say it’s for everyone - even once you learn how to use it well, there’s an inherent focus required. I enjoy the overall process, but there are times I have to dial into meetings, and if I want to make a shot during that period, it can be better for me to use a more automated machine.

Decent is being sold now, to make way for the Vostok, which I’ll use when I need to be a bit less involved with the brewing process, or just to compare how the coffee I roast at home brews on each machine.

Cuprajake

Fwiw when I moved from the Bianca to the Evo leva my Mrs stopped using it,

When I got the decent she started again.

Make of that what you will

Jason1wood

Cuprajake that’s what’s putting me off a leva. Would like her to get involved

Cuprajake

Depends, not everyone wants that feeling,

Esp if it’s not a sprung lever. I’ve not looked

I’d like something like that or cremina or ponte vecci but Mrs wouldn’t touch it

Jason1wood

Ffs lads, just watched videos of the decent and looks a great bit of kit also.

I need to calm down here and just pick…….🤣🤣🤣

@Raja123 you selling your Decent? What one is it??

LMSC

Jason1wood @Raja123 you selling your Decent?

You might check out on the other forum, unless he has listed it here. :-)

Raja123

Jason1wood I’d stick with your original choice, especially if you’re into traditional espresso. At the risk of controversy, the way the DE1 extracts (partly due to its slow fill rate) can make most shots fairly average in flavor profile.

That’s partly the reason I didn’t list it here: I’d rather it goes to someone who enjoys messing around with the machine, or hasn’t yet formed an opinion of what they want. It’s good for experimenting and building up some knowledge of shot styles, and their impact. Ultimately, my take is that it’s very much a third-wave machine. And even in that arena, I can pull better shots (for my tastes) consistently, manually.

Cuprajake

His has loads with it, if you didn’t want all the bits you’d get a good chunk back on eBay for them

HarveyMushman

I’d have a Decent if I was looking for a profiling machine. Someone posted a vid here a while back showing a transparent case version and it looked great.

Whilst there’s limitless possibilities for faffing, it also offers the one-button simplicity if you want it.

Also the size is great, nice compact machine.

dfk41

HarveyMushman I wonder why it uses a Vibe pump when there are so many other options? I wonder how many people who buy new, declare the cost of the software and pay the vat on it?

chlorox

HarveyMushman

Thr decent has such unrivalled capabilities for the tinkerer that it is in a class of its own but it looks and feels and sounds to me ike a PC with a touchscreen and a 1980s era dot matrix printer that has been modified to make coffee. To me, it just doesn’t offer what an ideal coffee making experience ought to be like. So while I respect and recognise what it can do and think that it will suit many people out there, it’s not for me and a spring lever is what moves me a lot more. Perhaps one day I will buy a strietman to see if the direct lever also appeals to me.

JammyDodger

HarveyMushman Someone posted a vid here a while back showing a transparent case version and it looked great.

I am a big fan of the transparent case option… the lights were easy to put in as the case just slides off.

HarveyMushman

dfk41 I wonder why it uses a Vibe pump when there are so many other options?

It’s not ideal, I don’t miss the sound of a vibe pump.

Unless I’m mistaken I don’t think you can use a rotary in the way the Decent works where flow is controlled at the pump. Maybe a gear pump would work but not sure how large they are.

I might be totally wrong though.

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