MediumRoastSteam I have seen, over the last 1.5 years, you don’t need to own a machine! 😊

@fwx I have never used either of them. But, I know based on members experience, Mara X is a lovely machine. You have a decent grinder. With your budget, you can buy Liz, a nice and a compact DB. If you can stretch a little, ACS Minima from ACS direct. I do not know if the prices of the machines have gone up because of supply side bottlenecks.

Please read the threads on ACS Minima. MediumRoastSteam does own Liz.

Your water is no good. You can go the mineralised RO or distilled. There is a thread on Scuma RO. Please head there and message the owner as there is a good deal going on. You may benefit from that. Another choice is getting a zero water jug and mineralise it.

      There is a review on YouTube but it’s in German, however, they do take the cover off and it looks very well designed, well made and a bit better put together than the Mara X but then it is £200 or 20% dearer. The manual is available on the Profitec web site and indicates a 15 minute warm up. The Mara X seems to have videos on how to fix almost everything not sure if that’s a good or a bad thing. If the 400 works like the Mara X and doesn’t involve lots of flushing or waiting for temperatures then I’d happily pay the extra. Not sure about the coloured disks though. Waiting for some reviews and surprised none seem to be available now it’s here to buy. Feet that won’t gouge the worktop are a big plus.

      DavecUK You have a switch underneath where you can switch to one of 3 temperatures for espresso, no flushing, little flush better steam, normal flush, maximal steam.

      On first look I thought this was the Profitec version (so as not to say rip-off) of the Mara X, with the same size and the 3 pre-set temp switch. However, after looking at the product page and this video, I didn’t see any mention to suggest that it has something similar to the cleverness of Mara X: giving priority to the brew over steam temp and achieving it with a second PID in the HX and some smart programming. Instead it just has three set temps for the steam, which in turn will affect the brew temp (so a standard HX with 3 steam temperatures?). It also doesn’t have the steam boost, because as a standard HX it’s always ready to steam?

      I have to say I got quite excited about the machine initially, but after looking at the page and video it seems they are mostly proud of the changeable discs for the steam and water knobs. While this may be a nice design touch, it’s hardly a revolution in espresso, is it?

      @DavecUK - am I missing something?

          fwx
          I have ordered a Profitec Pro 400. I have used a couple of ECM machines before and I have a friend who has a 500. The build quality and ease of use to work on swayed it for me. For my investment I prioritise durability and reliability.

            Doram

            While I can’t add anything else. I too came to the same conclusion as you. The Profitec 400 is a technically worse version of the 500, but what it has compared to the 500 are the size of the MaraX, a price tag nearer to the MaraX, and coloured discs.

            I think the 400 can’t have MaraX like features as that would make it eat up the (more expensive) 500 series sales… Got to keep those product tiers and differentiation.

              fwx By the way, how is Rancilio pro x? It seems to be not as good as liz in terms of functions, but well built and hence more expensive.

                Never understood what people mean by this really: define well built?

                Are we talking finishing - i.e polished, perfectly smooth edges everywhere, even inside the machine, tighter-fitting parts so no rattles etc - or are we talking better components and better placement for longevity, more space in the machine and more accessibility for maintenance, or are we just saying the metal is thicker or the machine is heavier?

                  Rob1 LOL, I saw “well built” many times, I never thought about it like you. It is indeed a misleading word for a newbie…

                    Rob1 Great Question. I think, @DavecUK, this should be a thread by itself.

                    For me, Quality parts, longevity, easy availability / serviceability would define well built. Appearance brings a nice touch but not critical for me.

                        Fair enough, but the engineering principles that you talk about haven’t changed - and probably never will!

                        DavecUK That article I wrote is around 16 years old now….so parts of it may not be up to date….

                        Saw it first time just now and really enjoyed the read. Didn’t notice anything in it that isn’t relevant today. Just wondering if due to 16 years of limitation you will be willing to reveal who is the HX machine manufacturer that you are referring to here:

                        “However I will say that there is a make of HX (Heat Exchanger machine/s) that I personally believe are a reference machine by which all others can be judged when considering the 3 least important areas to the purchaser, but perhaps the most important to a reviewer….actual quality, ease of maintenance and practicality. The most surprising part, they are not the most expensive machines in their class!”

                            [unknown] I have read the threads on Minima. And Dave’s reviews. It is a decent machine at its price.My worry is that there were some threads about the issues of Minima, and direct buying from ACS means I need to fix them my self once I meet such issues unluckily. Since not knowing how many Minimas have been sold, I cannot tell if these issues are common or not. Also interested in whether ACS has fixed those problems for the present version.

                            [unknown] We don’t know what you’ve read so define the problems you’ve seen and you’ll find out if anybody else has heard of them or if they’ve been fixed or not. As far as I’m aware any threads relating to known problems on this forum have addressed the issue.

                            • fwx replied to this.

                              whos unknown? has a user been deleted ?

                              Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -