Vesuvius Pressure Profiling Machine - General Discussion

Adrianmsmith This piece is wrong orientation

I took a few photos to try show everything as clearly as possible that’s the best I could get. The narrower side of that piece is on the bottom, the narrower side of it is sitting down into the barrel, the wider, flange side on top, is that correct? I’m aware that the preinfusion spring is absent on the Vesuvius by design

JahLaza The piece circled in green should be the other way up

Adrianmsmith Thanks, yes it is/was/has been the other way round but for some insane reason unbeknownst to me I turned it that way for the picture! I was speaking about the bottom most metal piece in the picture in my last post where I asked about its orientation. I thought you said it was the wrong way?

JahLaza the bottom bit, flat side to the spring.

looks like unside down hat!

Adrianmsmith yes all assembled as it should. Sorry again for that one wrong display, I’m stumped as to the issue

JahLaza

A video would maybe help us to help you….

No promises though!!

About that strange pressure issue of our machines (4 of 4 fail in the very same way): do you remember that machine that flew to Naples to be tested and seemed to work spotlessly there? Update: I’m glad to say it’s working perfectly now.

Problem was not software related as we tried to explain so many times. Problem was in the water circuit design. There was an obvious interference between boilers: when steam boiler was hot, from about 125ºC, the machine didn’t work smoothly. This is part of an old coffeeforums post that explained quite precisely the problem (not mine):

The machine starts making pressure but stops just shy of 2 bar even though the pump is still running at the same speed. Then when it ramps up to the next stage the pump spins but the pressure doesn’t increase for a few seconds, ultimately overshooting and ruining the shot. No problem with steam boiler at 120º or less. No difference if hx is on or off.

It was the HX circuit fault. The design, not if HX is on or off, that doesn’t make any difference. We asked Paolo how to bypass the HX serpentine and the machine works fine now. When steam boiler is hot the hx gets hot as well. Water in the hx expands and this pressure ends in the brew circuit. Why? I don’t know but no hx - no problem. When I got my machine serviced some time ago I changed the HX electrovalve just to discard problem was there but… that didn’t solve anything. The problem was the way this circuit is designed. Now there is nothing in the hx. No water, no connections. It’s just empty and opened on the two sides. The electrovalve is disconected. Water goes now directly from the water distributor to the coffee boiler. No stop at 2 bars, no fast spinning on the pump, no overshooting, NO difference whether steam boiler is on or off.

And not just this: now the machine works perfectly with factory settings PID and pump acceleration. I tried to explain this many times: yes, you can play with pid settings, you can play with pump acc. But this has to be a personal choice and not a way to avoid this problem, machine must work fine with factory settings. Now it does. And yes, I prefer to low some pid values and pump acc but it’s just this, something I prefer not something I need to do to get things working fine.

I’m very glad problem is sorted but, to be honest, I’m really upset with this machine. I have been asking for this issue for years (I bought my Vesuvius in 2018). I talked many many times to factory, I sent the machine for servicing where they asked me to do it, the workshop video-talked to their tecnician, spares required where sent and installed but… the problem was always there. I wasted time, I wasted money. Nobody seemed to understand where this came from and nobody trust us when we said it was not an electric or software related issue but a physical one. I have made thousands of shots with my Vesuvius and I can say, 100% sure, machine worked fine with steam boiler cold but didn’t when steam boiler was hot but ACS insisted it could be just a coincidence. I’m very reluctant to believe this is happening only to our machines, four of four as I said before. Every machine with this design will fail in the same way. Why this didn’t show up at the factory? Easy, pid settings made the pump working in a ultra tamed mode, slow and lifeless.

I ended selling my Vesuvius and I’m very happy for the new owner, now he’s going to be able to make espresso without fighting with the steam boiler temperature.

tocateclas It is great news that the problem was solved. I guess all four machines you mentioned have done the same thing and now they all experience no issues?

One question that I have got is: If other users have not observed the same phenomenon does this mean that the design of the machine is different from yours?

I do not expect the design to change too often but simply curious. Mine was produced at the beginning of 2020.

John_Yossarian No, we have fixed the one which traveled to Naples. We wanted to test it for some time and then do the same thing with the others. I’m sure it will work with the rest as symptoms are exactly the same.

I don’t know. Our machines are not from the same year: mine is 2018, the one we have fixed is 2019 and, if I remember well, the other two are from 2020. My electrovalve is new, so it’s not a bad spare thing. If the design is similar, the machine will fail. I think air in the hx is causing the issue. Paolo asked us first to bypass the hx without taking the electro valve apart but it didn’t work as the valve did not avoid water to flow and there was not a leak but a water jet when the pump was on. When we put again everything in place (original set) the problem was much evident and it failed even at 120º. I think it was caused by the air in the hx circuit after reinstalling it. You could think purging the circuit letting pass water through it would do the trick but… no, I have tried it hundreds of times. Depending on how you are using the machine it can be difficult to detect. If you use it always with steam boiler on, you probably find the way to make espresso ok. But if you use it sometimes with steam, sometimes without steam, you will observe it does not work in the same way. Another factor is how espresso tastes. With milk is not as evident. Tasting plain espresso is different. When the machine fails, lot of pressure is aplied after preinfussion fase, this slows the flow and the espresso will taste dark and bitter. It’s a very big difference in taste.

We let you know about the other machines. One is close to us and we are trying this fix on it very soon.

kautivo Out of curiosity, have you shared your observations with Paolo Cortese? What does he think?

John_Yossarian Yes my friend he knows the progress, he also has helped with the way for connect the pipe directly from valve water distribution to brew boiler!

I think the most people are using his Vesuvius only for espresso and if they have the steam boiler off so they can’t see the fail, for other side i would like to know if really somebody use HX function….

In my humble opinion the machine needn’t this option.

I will follow detailing…

prezes An update that you may be interested. After a little experimenting with my Vesuvius, I discovered something. My normal routine had been to just purge the steam wand long enough to get the water out. Even though the pressure and temp looked good shortly after this, it would drop down to an anemic 0.8bar. But then I noticed a more vigorous steam pressure as I was cleaning things up. So I changed my routine to purge the steam wand for a solid 8 seconds before I pull the shot. Once I begin steaming after the shot is pulled, I can always maintain a 1.1 or 1.2b through the completion of the steaming process.

This is going to come across as an odd question but how many Vesuvius V10s do you reckon are in the UK?

Ratty2000 This is going to come across as an odd question but how many Vesuvius V10s do you reckon are in the UK?

Dunno? Probably not a huge number.

I plan to pick up a 2019 Vesuvius at the weekend, seems great value as a used buy given it’s capability and spec. Assume this machine is still relevant in 2025??

Are ACS planning to continue to support the Vesuvius with spares for the foreseeable future?

Any tips for this machine? Anything to check on inspection? I am coming from a Fracino Cherub HX machine, so a simple but reliable E61 style machine . I know ill need molykote (111?) for the cam lobe, post back flush etc. Anything else?

Thanks

Tal I plan to pick up a 2019 Vesuvius at the weekend, seems great value as a used buy given it’s capability and spec. Assume this machine is still relevant in 2025??

If someone told me “this is the only machine you are allowed to use hse from now on……”

Id be more than happily drinking coffee daily.

It was ahead of it’s time in 2019!!

I basically programmed mine to mimic the lever as i guess a lot of people do .

You should be more than happy.

Yes molykote 111 should be used when servicing the group. It stays put a long time and lubricates well.

With the servicing…. Less is more sometimes!!

Of course the first thing I’d do is remove the cam, “preinfusion chamber” (which isn’t really in this case!) and mushroom for a look and a clean but i like messing!!

I usually soak everytging in cafiza to clean it once off the machine .

We require pictures ,😎😝

Adrianmsmith

Hey Adrian, what are the profile steps for that lever-type shot you are pulling? Looking to occupy the last profile slot I have.

Cheers,

Andy

Adrianmsmith

Appreciate that, it is on the other forum, looks in good condition and well looked after, so fingers crossed all goes well!